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Sunday 10 PM ET The Bull Pen
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auctions - advertising rates -
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Sunday 10 PM ET The Bull Pen
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Caroline Coile, Ph.D., Author, "Show Me!" Everything About Showing Dogs
PH FasDog: Good evening and thank you for joining us tonight! PH FasDog: DogHobbyist.com is pleased to welcome Caroline Coile Ph.D, author, of numerous popular books, including Show Me! A Dog Showing Primer. Caroline is also the owner of the busy YahooGroup of the same name: Show-Me as our guest during our Sixth Annual Chat Week. PH FasDog: She is no stranger to the showing world. She shares a home with seven salukis of which include Best in Show, Best in Specialty, Best in Field, American Saluki Association Dog of the Year, and Pedigree Award winners, as well as nationally ranked #1 conformation and #1 obedience salukis. PH FasDog: Caroline was never content to accept the established dogma of the dog world, her research interests in canine behavior, genetics, neurophysiology, anatomy, and especially, sensory systems, led to a Ph.D. from the Florida State University. Thanks, Caroline, Welcome! PHFlea: Welcome Caroline!! ccoile: Thanks for the intro! PHMowgli: Welcome!!!!! Deerhounds: welcome! ccoile: First, anybody who has corresponded with me via e-mail has to learn to read CC-type...it's quite simple, just rearrange the letters and you can figure out most of the words... Deerhounds: LOL PH FasDog: If you'd like to ask a question of our Guest tonight, please type a ? or ! and you will be called in the order received. Hint...type out your question after you put your ? to the screen so you are ready. Please put a GA (go ahead) or Thank You at the end so we know you are finished asking your question. ccoile: It's hard to belive I'm the one talking about ho wto show dogs because even though i've been doing this for 25 years (plus) I still feel like a novice at every show ccoile: But that's one reason I wrote Show-Me in the first place... ccoile: It was so hard to find out what the mysterious hidden rules were ccoile: and nobody seemed to help... ccoile: adn so many people seemed snobby... PHFlea: lolol ccoile: I actually wrote down a promise to myself and tucked it away adn said one day, when I was old, I would tell people new to showing everything nobody would tell me ccoile: so I did JHC_nr: ? neonaura: ? PHMowgli: JHC Ga Shermaine: ? JHC_nr: How do you advise to get a shy dog to show? ccoile: I started the Show-Mw list on Yahoo groups so people who were just starting could ask naive questions in a safe place ccoile: so now we have 800 memebers sand everybody is nice and helpful! ccoile: Ah, a shy dog... ccoile: Shy dogs area cahallnege--how mcuh so depends on th ebreed. ccoile: Socialize is the easy answer, but you know thta JHC_nr: whippet ccoile: I thik too many people overwhelm the dog when socializing though. ccoile: OK, that's good---you don;t need the tail up! PHMowgli: you will be next have you question ready for when I call your name ccoile: I like to teach th edog a couple of tricks or obedience exercises at hme first. the show stand can be one of them. ccoile: I am just now starting to clciker train for show as well, adn I think it is good for shy dogs neonaura: ? Deerhounds: ? ccoile: The point is to get the dog so he knows how to do something well...then when you take him toa sort of scary place, you have him do his trick and he says "I can do this" and you reward him. PHFlea: You will be next for question when she is done with the shy one...they will let you know JHC_nr: thank you PHMowgli: neon aura Ga PH FasDog: If you'd like to ask a question of our Guest tonight, please type a ? or ! and you will be called in the order received. Hint...type out your question after you put your ? to the screen so you are ready. Please put a GA (go ahead) or Thank You at the end so we know you are finished asking your question.If you'd like to ask a question of our Guest tonight, please type a ? or ! and you will be called in the order received. Hint...type out your question after you put your ? to the screen so you are ready. Please put a GA (go ahead) or Thank You at the end so we know you are finished asking your question. ccoile: If he's too nervous thne you've oushed too far. You have to let him succeed so you can reward adn praise him . I like to use natural rewards like chasing a lure (for w awhippet) that heplps with confidence neonaura: How do the judges handle the clicker? Any comments? neonaura: thank you ccoile: By th etime the dog is in th ering he should be "off the clciker." The clciker is a marker that is used during trainign to tell th edog he's done th eright thing ccoile: It's use is its immediacy ccoile: then the reward follows. ccoile: So once th edog knows the task he no longer needs or should have th clciker. ccoile: It shoud not be used in the ring, because the dog should be trained by then neonaura: ? ccoile: Of oucrse you still can use th etreat or other reward PHMowgli: you will be next on que have you question ready neonaura: Have you been tempted to become a judge yourself? ccoile: hmmmm....yes and no PHMowgli: please do not just add in extra question until you are called ccoile: I hate being in th eposition to ruin people's days... PHMowgli: Shermaine Go ahead with your question Deerhounds: sniff sniff isn't it my turn now? ccoile: yet I complain about judgng (like we all do) and wish we had more judges with my good taste ;-) ccoile: I am toying with th eidea and I probably will, but I also don;t really like to plan so far ahead as judges have to! PHMowgli: you are next PHMowgli: especially now that shermaine left again LOL Deerhounds: Caroline, I am in awe of your accomplisments with your Salukis! I also have sighthounds, obviously... you mention using rewards such as chasing the lure... how can use a lure as a reward? how do you time that? I have a hard time rewarding my dogs during training as they don't care about things like food. (They will spit it out!) Deerhounds: ga ccoile: I have thta problem too. I use a lure on the end of a lunge line at home. If I had a ytraining class t ogo to, I would take it there. Some, but not all, of my dogs love chasing it, and for those dogs I will get to the show grounds early--before the show starts or the night before...so I can play with them around the rings. I want them to think it's a fun place ccoile: I have seen people reward their dogs in th ering after judging with the lure on a pole if it's th elast breed of th eday PHFlea: ? Deerhounds: when do you time it, though, during actual training? after a session? ccoile: For non-sighthouds, think beyond just treats if your dog isn;t a chowhound. Frisbees, balls--keep them happy adn keep them guessing Deerhounds: oh well for non-sighthounds... where's the challenge? PHMowgli: Flea go ahead with your question PHFlea: You were talking about over socializing, what do you consider the fine line? Caridad_nr: ? ccoile: Oversociaizing: when I started in dogs, the advice was to flood the dog with epople. Take them to a shoppig center and let everybody there go over them. ccoile: Flooding is a technique tried in human behavior modifucation ccoile: It does n;t work ccoile: If you're scared of snakes throwing 100 snakes on you won;t make you less scared of them ccoile: But showing you one, froma distance, and only gradually getting it closer when you've adjusted to seeing it may help you feel more at eas aroun dit. PHFlea: True....makes me run ccoile: So you may be pushe dto feel justa tad uncomfortable, but not s o much you are too scare dto cal down. That's where you want your dog to be ccoile: So for show training, first just go to public place. When people ask to pet your dog, say no if he's not ready for it. PHFlea: Great! Thanks ccoile: Instead of having people go over your dog just like a judge, have them do like an obedience judge--just touch th ehead, back, and rump ccoile: then gradually work toward more rouching ccoile: touching neonaura: ? Caridad_nr: Do you feel it's possible for an owner/handler to really succeed? sometimes it seems overwhelmingly the odds are against you. I am not talking of ability, which i understand can very a lot. I'm really talking about politics - judges favoring handlers type things. Or is that just a lame excuse, LOL? ga Caridad_nr: vary not very Caridad_nr: ga PHMowgli: que is Caridad current, then neonaura, mesashelties, and Mowgli ccoile: An owner handler can really succeed, but they have to try harder. When I starte dto special my saluki that I did th ebest with, I was very discouraged and convince it was impossible to win unless you were a handler. Caridad_nr: do you just have to be better technically, though, or do you have to actually do the advertising and judge schmoozing that the pros do? ccoile: But I found out that we beat th ehandlers almost all th etime with her, and nobody knew us, and we didn;t advertise, and I didn;t go out to dinner with judges...and I was concvinced that, at l east at the breed level, 90% of th etime they were actually judging th edogs! Caridad_nr: but in the groups? ccoile: I think it woul dhelp, but as I said, I never knew a single judge. I never senta win photo, and I only placed two ads. She won a BIS before I had placed any ad. Caridad_nr: Wow! congrats on that! PHMowgli: Caridad any followup? ccoile: I will say that I was on th eFL circuit one year, and hadlt placed ina single group, and one of th eads came out mid circuit, and we placed in every group after thta, under judges I had never won under before. I did think the ad had an influnmce there. ccoile: It is harder to win at group adn BIS level against th epros in good part because most do have advertsiing bit also their experince really shines there Caridad_nr: well, I think you're saying ads DO matter, but if you have a great dog they dont' matter quite as much? ccoile: Thanks. Caridad_nr: probably the same with schmoozing etc PHMowgli: neonaura you are next Caridad_nr: sometimes I think the only way an owner handler can beat the pros is to just BECOME like a pro neonaura: Interesting...do you think the saluki breed is different from other breeds in dog show judging because of the variety? ga Caridad_nr: anyway thank you very much! ccoile: I do think if you want to be treated like a pro you need to act like a pro, and approach going to a dog show like going to a job. ccoile: I think judges get frustrated judging salukis because of th evarity but also because they complain about lack of basic soundness Hobbs_nr: ? ccoile: It's hard to judge a breed that they are told shol dlook like just about anything and move like just about anything execpt what they've been taught to like in other breeeds, and some brreed advisors say to ignore down adn back, so what are they to do? ccoile: g/a PHMowgli: mesashelties go ahead neonaura: Ok thanks PHMowgli: mesa go ahead Mesashelties_nr: I am raising 2 kids to show they are 6months old now, one seems more attached to her littermate, how do get her to concentrate more on people and less on other dogs? ccoile: By making it more rewarding. Again teaching her to do some basic show stuff and rearding her with games and treats ccoile: I think it's also OK if she is attached to her dog firned at that age. I often show train my dogs as a brace, because they love trotting around th ering together. Mesashelties_nr: do you find that teaching agility helps in ay way? ccoile: Then later we try it alone. Shermaine: ? ccoile: g/a Mesashelties_nr: thanks PHMowgli: Hobbs go ahead ccoile: I will tell you in another few months. I am just now buying equipment Mesashelties_nr: Ok Hobbs_nr: What do you think is the worst soundness problem in salukis today? (And do any of your dogs have that problem? ccoile: I think teaching anything helps confidence Mesashelties_nr: thanks ccoile: ther'es aloaded question! ccoile: froma show dog perspectove, it's probably just lack of being able to trot down adn back with efeet going forward. I also see a lot of bad toplines. There is virtually no fault ever created that one of my dogs has not had.... Deerhounds: LOL ccoile: I have developed a very differen personal perspectove from that I started with ccoile: I once wanted to hav eonly an elite group of perfect champions ccoile: Now I realize the time spent with the dogs in th ering is so micriscopic compared to the rest of our live stogether.... ccoile: If I have a dog I can never show because of a fault, I'm dispoointed but I would never part with him for a sure fire BIS winner. ccoile: Having the company of a dog I love makes me much happeir. Hobbs_nr: thanks. i feel better about my dogs now. ccoile: g/a PHMowgli: Shermaine go ahead Hobbs_nr: thanks. I feel better about my dogs now. Shermaine: Salukis are so beautiful! Do you have any of the desert dogs, and if so do you think they are different? Hobbs_nr: course you know it's me - k bee ccoile: No, I don't have any, although I have seen some I lust after. They are certainly less extreme in looks, and by all reports priobably superior in th efield. Shermaine: thank you g/a PHMowgli: judy this is a protocal chat and we have a special guest PHMowgli: SmDog go ahead PHSmDog: What advice can you give to someone owner handling with judges who don't seem to know what the breed should look like because they learned all they know from some one who doesn't breed to the standard? ccoile: I will take this intermission to invte anybody who would like to join our Yahoo group Show-Me PHSmDog: for example coats... there are tons of black wooly coats out there not to mention horrible fronts and rears and the judges just keep putting them up PH FasDog: Caroline's link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Show-Me PHSmDog: I breed to the standard as much as humanly possible and sometimes my dogs don't even get a second look... KDiamondDavis: ? Shermaine: ? ccoile: That's a tough one. Sometimes there is more pleasure is sticking to wjat you know is right depsite th efact thta others follow a different path. Yet you would like to win! if others agree with you you could write articles in breed or multibreed magazines. Try to get on your parent club judges eduaction group. PHSmDog: I figured PHSmDog: Parent club is part of the problem... those with the bad coats etc out number the ones with the proper dog....sadly ccoile: Keep showing yoru dogs, because if you don;t, the judges will assume they are wrong. Get more people with your type, adn eventually they may see the light. Try to get one influential judge on yoru side. Good lcuk. ccoile: n/g PHMowgli: que is Smdog current, Mowgli, KDD and if we have time Shermaine PHMowgli: Caroline if there is only one thing you can teach us tongiht what would that be? PHSmDog: Thanks... it is VERY frustrating... knowing that I have dogs that should be winning and yet... PHSmDog: g/a Shermaine: with as many articles you've done and the books, what is next on the horizon for you? PHMowgli: it was very informative Shermaine: thank you for having such an interesting guest! PH FasDog: Check out Carolines Yahoo Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Show-Me Caridad_nr: lots of fun KDiamondDavis: Caroline is smart, and loads of fun! PHMowgli: the yahoo group is great for any who are not on it already Mesashelties_nr: Both chats were!! Thank you all for setting it up!! Caridad_nr: she's back! PHMowgli: WElcome back caroline PHFlea: WB Caroline.....I was just trying to phone you Hobbs_nr: yeah - welcome back. PHMowgli: Caroline we have 3 more questions for you ccoile: You all just scared me off line! PHMowgli: can you stay that long? Mesashelties_nr: thank you Caroline for all the GREAT info ccoile: Yes... PHMowgli: great Shermaine repeat your question PHMowgli: KDD you will be next Shermaine: With all that you have done in the field of dogs, what is next on the horizon for you? ccoile: I'm glad you asked... Shermaine: : ) thanks ccoile: We have just moved to 102 acres on the Suwannee River ccoile: we are planning to start a dog camp Shermaine: neat! ccoile: hiking, canoing, swimming, agility, games, trtaining... Deerhounds: lure coursing? Hobbs_nr: can we fly in? Shermaine: show and field things? ccoile: I've started a sort of website (needs work) at www.luckydogcamp.com ccoile: why yes you can--it has it's own airstrip! Hobbs_nr: Great! ccoile: yes, lure cousring and racing! PHMowgli: Awesome! PHFlea: Cool!!! Shermaine: Super! I will go look. Thank you for your time and valuable information !! Shermaine: g/a ccoile: we are having agreat tim eorganizing it. ccoile: On apersonal level, I've done some oebdiebnce for the first tim eimf few years and will be starting agaility PHMowgli: KDD go ahead Hobbs_nr: What if we have a horse? KDiamondDavis: Hi Caroline! Just wondered how you came to choose the gorgeous--makes my heart skip a beat, they're so beautiful--Saluki as your breed? g/a ccoile: true confessions froma dog wroter who advocates not picking a dog by looks: I picked then by looks from an encyclopedia when I was 6 years old PHMowgli: Caroline if you would like us to learn 1 thing from your being tonight about showing our dogs waht would that be? KDiamondDavis: I can totally understand that! I know they don't like to do the things I like to do with my dogs, but it's still hard for me to resist Salukis. Their loks just blow me away. g/a PH FasDog: are we done? PHFlea: Looks like we lost her again....... PH FasDog: Yup PHMowgli: she just doesn't want to tell me that answer LOL PH FasDog: LOL PHMowgli: everytime I post it she pops LOL KDiamondDavis: Awww, getting bumped is no fun. KDiamondDavis: Her book "Show Me!" is WONDERFUL. PHMowgli: yes it is I have a copy righ tnext me LOL faustcorpus: she doesnt like you mow...;) PHFlea: I'm going to get it PHMowgli: Caroline did you see the last question ccoile: no i missed it PH FasDog: Caroline, on behalf of all of us at DogHobbyist.com thank you so much for being our guest tonight! And thank you to all of you who attended. Caroline has a yahoo group that you all might be interested in: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Show-Me. ccoile: my coputer hatesme PHMowgli: If you can have only 1 thing we leave this chat learnging what would it be? ccoile: Thank you for having me here! PHMowgli: don't owrry mine hates me also Caridad_nr: her group is wonderful! join it! Caridad_nr: <---not a paid plant, a real person! LOL PHMowgli: LOL PHFlea: Caroline Thank you so much!!! ccoile: That dog shows are suppose dto eba fun thing you can share with your dog, not th reason for having a dog. They are small part of your time together. Have fun! (go to dog camp!) Caridad_nr: thank you it was great! Caridad_nr: goodnight and Merry Xmas to all! PHMowgli: Thank you to the Caroline Hobbs_nr: you are shameless ccoile: thahks again! PHSmDog: THanks to you too! KDiamondDavis: Great to see you, Caroline! PHMowgli: We appreciate your endurance in the problems LOL KDiamondDavis: Niters! PHMowgli: good night everyone who has to rush off PHMowgli: anyone who like to stay chat is welcome to PHMowgli: even though our scheduled chat is over the room will remain open PHMowgli: and don't forget to join Carolines goup and check our her website at http:www.lluckydogcampcom PHFlea: Night all.... PHMowgli: http://www.luckydogcamp/com ccoile: www.luckydogcamp.com PHFlea: lolol I thought you left PHMowgli: thank you caroline ccoile: I am now! PHMowgli: good night to all PHMowgli: I hop eyou all enjoyed the chat PHMowgli: have a great night
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You think it's hard to show your own dog? Try doing it with sighthounds!