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PHChristy: Hi everyone!

PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat!

newfy_nr: hi

Rueger: hi newfy

newfy_nr: its been ages since i was in

PHChristy: Our topic tonight is Getting It Done

Rueger: how are you tonight christy?

newfy_nr: great tell me how to do it between newfy hair i always end up with AIs

PHChristy: or as I prefer to call it, "Doing the Deed"

PHChristy: ROFL newfy

PHChristy: I'm doing well, Rue, how are you?

PHChristy: We'll hope Morgan makes it as she has a prepared little presentation on this topic

Rueger: well I can skate out my back door LOL

PHChristy: LOL

newfy_nr: a friend of mine just got her first natural after many ai litter and said she finally feels like a breeder

Rueger: hey don't knock AI sometimes that is the only way to make it work LOL

ode2adream: back :)

Rueger: hey ode

ode2adream: Hiya :)

newfy_nr: i know but it would be ok to use natural on the odd ocassion!LOL

PHChristy: WB ode

PHChristy: I like to have AI be the exception, not the rule

newfy_nr: all my litters have been Ai and its expensive with a student loan!

newfy_nr: oooooooh if only chris!

PHChristy: and i prefer to use AI for practical reasons, rather than because the bitch and stud won't/don't do the deed

Rueger: I think my worst breeding was Eli to PeeWee not opposite of their names Eli is small and PeeWee is big I had to hold him up for a 37 minute tie!

PHChristy: Hi, loganisle! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Getting It Done

loganisle: hello all! the subject on this email just enticed me to come on in. . . lol

PHChristy: LOL

PHChristy: yes, sex sells, it's true

ode2adream: lol

loganisle: hee hee

Rueger: he he

Rueger: hi liberty

PHChristy: Hi, libertyhill! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Getting It Done: Tips on Actual Breeding

libertyhill: Hello!

PHChristy: I think the first thing is to understand when the bitch is ready

newfy_nr: hi libberty

loganisle: really, I just wanted to know what kind of hijinks others have gone to. . . I already know my own. ;)

loganisle: I think everyone ought to hang out with some English Bulldog breeders some time

loganisle: they know EXACTLY when that bitch is ready. . .they have to

PHChristy: some bitches are terrible teases when they have no intention of going through with it yet ... an experienced stud will not be fooled

PHChristy: Yes, I have many "dog breeding truisms" that end "except for english bulldogs"

newfy_nr: i go by the stud dog they know and then back up with a prog test

PHChristy: Hi there trav! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Getting It Done: Tips on Actual Breeding

loganisle: I have a young stud who chased this girl all over the house. He'd mount and she'd run. I guess she figured she was done!

PHChristy: well, the prog test is more for purposes of whelping information

loganisle: Needless to say, AI came into the picture.

PHChristy: Hi there Sara! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Getting It Done: Tips on Actual Breeding

libertyhill: that's what I wish I had done. Progesterone.

travlinpom: hey all

PHChristy: Sometimes we are just not patient enough

loganisle: try explaining what I'm doing in the kitchen to my hubby of barely a year

Sarasmushu: Evening Everyone

PHChristy: I will never breed another litter without using progesterone testing

PHChristy: Hi, KyKathy! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Getting It Done: Tips on Actual Breeding

loganisle: well. . .

ode2adream: rofl

Sarasmushu: Hi Kathy

loganisle: I've done both ways

loganisle: recently

ode2adream: sounds like my husband.

PHChristy: but more for the benefits of whelping information

PHChristy: Hi Morgan!!!

Sarasmushu: Hi Morgan

loganisle: the one we did the tests on missed

KyKathy: hello all this sounds great

loganisle: the one we didn't test took

PHMorgan: hAROO Folks!Q

loganisle: and all this time I thought it would be the other way around

Rueger: hey morgan

loganisle: it was a fresh chilled breeding too

PHChristy: I don't think that using progesterone testing is necessary for natural breedings, which is what we are discussing tonight

PHChristy: we're talking about dogs doing the deed, LOL

loganisle: the one we didn't test on we got 7 puppies - they're just 4 weeks old tomorrow! I really need some new pics on my page.

libertyhill: this was my first breeding....she was on about day nine (I wasn't sure because she had been away at Nationals with a friend)...she was "mushy" the day we got there but put up a huge fight and was going to hurt the stud dog.

loganisle: we are only talking about natural?

PHChristy: logan, tonight, yes

loganisle: oh. ok

loganisle: that's fine too

PHChristy: we have an AI topic coming up soon

PHChristy: day nine is pretty early

loganisle: though I have much funnier stories about the looks I've gotten from dong AIs

loganisle: :)

PHChristy: LOL logan

newfy_nr: do any of you get young studs to watch experienced ones to learn what to do?

libertyhill: on day fourteen she stood, reluctantly....on day 17 stud owner had a "textbook easy" breeding...

loganisle: *doing

PHMorgan: Last year we did a "Lecture Series" that folks really seemed to like. So what we're going to do tonight is have a brief lecture, then questions! OK?

PHChristy: newfy, yes, I think that really does help

PHChristy: ok folks, let's let Morgan do her presentation, then we'll open it up to chat again :)

libertyhill: wish I had a better idea of ovulation/due date though!

travlinpom: I only do live cover, but think i would try AI if it were necessary, i have heard good results

PHMorgan: So, a "Normal" easy breeding should involve a healthy young stud and a healthy young bitch, if possible.

loganisle: Christy - really???

PHMorgan: BOth should have their health clearances and it is often useful when placing puppies if the parents have some titles to prove their worth

KyKathy: this is so cool...keep going morgan

PHMorgan: So, what happens is the bitch will come into season and you should already have the stud chosen long beforehand. YOu will notify the stud owner and decide when you are going to meet with the bitch. Some folks travel back and forth, others will leave the bitch with teh stud owner for a few days. She migth be confined more at the stud owner's home than yours, but remember it's only a few days, so it's not going to hurt her.

PHMorgan: Most often a bitch is ready to be bred sometime after day 10 - it varies GREATLY so it's helpful if you've asked YOUR breeder what is the norm for her bitches so you have a rule of thumb.

PHMorgan: What you can see is the following: the bitch will flag her tail to the side for other dogs (even females) or when you touch her rear quarters, especially near her vulva

PHMorgan: The flesh near the vulva will be soft like the feel of your lips, not harder like the feel of the end of your nose (just an example)

kaana: hello everyone

animalcarker: Hi All

KyKathy: hi kaana and animal

PHMorgan: When teh stud is near the bitch, often he will caper about, and they might play. Often the bitch will NOT be particularly receptive - she might even snap and growl, so it's useful to have both dogs on lead, just in case. Maiden bitches can be quite nasty until they figure out what is going on. And some bitches NEVER enjoy the process

KyKathy: how sad

PHMorgan: Often he will lick her ears and of course, her rear - and often he will chatter his teeth with excitement

PHMorgan: USually, even if she's not quite sure, the bitch will flag while he does this.

PHMorgan: Now, an inexperienced stud will often mount the bitch from the front or to the side. Just gently pull him off and direct him to the correct place - he will learn quick!

PHMorgan: Now, if the dogs are too different in size, you might need to try putting them on an incline, or with small dogs, using some kind of box or whatever to make it easier

KyKathy: that is smart

PHMorgan: Once he has his goal, the stud will thrust very firmly (yeah, now it gets x-rated) and the bulb at the very base of his penis will swell inside the vagina, making a tie - the dogs will remain together until the tie goes down

PHMorgan: Usually it is best to turn the dog around, carefully, putting his back end ot hers - this is normal - and it's not uncomfortable for him.

PHMorgan: A tie can last from a very short time (5-10 minutes) to a VERY long time (an hour). Usually around 1/2 an hour is common, so have something comfortable to sit on while you wait.

PHMorgan: Keep the bitch quiet and don't allow her to drag the dog around the room or yard - that MIGHT hurt him.

PHMorgan: ONce the tie is broken, put the bitch up and put the dog in a crate or quiet room until his penis goes back into the sheath - make sure this happens so that he doesn't become injured. It usually takes a bit for him to completely go back into the sheath.

PHMorgan: If the tie last more than an hour or so, call your vet.

Clicker59: Sorry AOL is acting up again

Clicker59: How is averybody doing tonight

KyKathy: great clicker

PHMorgan: YOu want to be SURE that the dog is properly TIED to the bitch. If the bulb of the penis is OUTSIDE teh bitch when it swells, that is called an OUTSIDE tie, and often it's best to put the dogs away and try again in a couple of hours - you can try to hold them together and hope he ejaculates where he is supposed to, but often this is not worth the effort.

PHMorgan: Sperm lasts as long as 7 days inside the bithc, so earlier is ALWAYS better than later.

MESAshelties_nr: ok

PHMorgan: IF you are using any kind of ovulation testing, it's useful to know that once the eggs are released (ovulation) it takes about 4 days for the eggs to mature. So if you are using frozen semen, which has a shorter "shelf-life" you need to inseminate a few days after the bitch has ovulated, so the eggs are mature and READY to be fertilized when the sperm is "delivered"

PHMorgan: But more on that later

PHMorgan: It's customary to breed a bitch every other day until she will not stand any longer.

PHMorgan: This seems the best rule of thumb for natural breedings. SOme breeders say to breed as soon as she will stand, then 4 days later, and leave it at that - which also makes sense, given what we know about sperm longevity

PHMorgan: OK - questions?

KyKathy: why do you need a vet if tied over an hour

PHChristy: KyKathy, because that is a very long time for a tie, there might be some kind of physical reason they can't get unstuck

KyKathy: ah...and when is the male ejaculating

newfy_nr: how can you encourage a young stud that hasnt had the chance to see an experienced boy do his stuff?

PHMorgan: During the tie.

PHChristy: the male ejaculates almost immediately

KyKathy: oh..

PHChristy: and then stands there looking confused for half an hour

KyKathy: lol

PHMorgan: Newfy - it's useful to praise him and try not to choose a grumpy date for him

ode2adream: lol

PHMorgan: Yep - both of them

PHMorgan: ALtho my girls usually stand there looking smug

newfy_nr: yup tried that

ode2adream: what do you do if the bitch just will not stand and you know she's ready?

libertyhill: if you do NOT do progesterone testing, what is the BEST way (I know not foolproof) to estimate whelp date?

KyKathy: lol

newfy_nr: she was a real flirt

PHMorgan: If you really want a natural breeding, you put a muzzle on her and make her stand. Not very nice, but she will forgive you

PHMorgan: 63 days from the first breeding

PHChristy: but that's a VERY rough method

libertyhill: even if the second breeding was easier?

KyKathy: is 63 days for every breed large and small

PHChristy: KyKathy, yes

PHMorgan: Yes

PHChristy: not 63 days from breeding, though, but 63 days from OVULATION

newfy_nr: some vets can give a due date through their scanning

PHMorgan: It's easy to remember it this way _ Humans are pregnant for 9 months, dogs are pregnant for 9 weeks

PHChristy: that's why only with progesterone testing can you really get a good idea

libertyhill: I know...but if you don't know when she ovulated....

PHMorgan: Then you guess

PHChristy: libertyhill, then you are guessing

PHChristy: GMTA Morgan

travlinpom: Maybe i misunderstood, but isnt gestation 59 days? we count 63 as an average because we are not sure of the ovulation date

PHMorgan: Which, to be honest, is how I do it

libertyhill: from best breeding perhaps? The one she stood for absolutely willingly?

KyKathy: how do you tell if they are ovulating

PHMorgan: Trav - that's right too

PHChristy: KyKathy, with ovulation testing

PHChristy: progesterone testing

PHMorgan: There are tests that you can do

loganisle: whoops

PHMorgan: It's useful to have a vet who is experienced, tho, as the reading of the tests is an art

PHChristy: I don't think the bitch's willingness tells you she has ovulated

kaana: my bitch will stand from day 4 till day 26..and have to get the progesterone test as otherwise I wouldn't know when she is ready, anyone else have this prob?

KyKathy: hmm..more complicated than i thought

PHChristy: there is a ten day window around ovulation when the bitch can conceive

PHMorgan: LIberty - that is a good way to guess

loganisle: We usually figure 9 weeks from first breeing and last breeding - gives us a good time span, but at least we have an idea

libertyhill: I just know how I feel during that time, LOL, SORRY!!!!!

PHMorgan: Kaana - yep, been there, done that. ONly my bitch would NEVER stand

loganisle: day 4????? WOW

PHMorgan: OR FLAG

loganisle: I had a bitch that bred through day 28 when the stud owner finally said "enough"!

newfy_nr: my old girl was like that kaana

PHMorgan: When you get closer to your due date (we will cover this in a few weeks) you can begin taking her temperature and know within a day or so that she's going to deliver

kaana: so now I breed her on the 12th and 14th

loganisle: the first bitch I bred my boy to wouldn't stand

PHMorgan: Logan - and the stud was probably quite disappointed! LOL

loganisle: she'd flag forever

loganisle: it ended in AI

KyKathy: does the temp go up or down for delivery

newfy_nr: down

libertyhill: the stud dog owner suggested I count from the second (best) breeding. Vet was able to palpate three puppies on day 33 (by THAT count)

PHMorgan: If your bitch will NOT stand, and you don't want to force her, you can always do an AI (we'll discuss that later as well)

loganisle: Morgan - LOL - I'm sure he was seeing as it was all natural - had a litter of six that I couldn't get weaned either. . .but that's another story

loganisle: Liberty - ultrasound is the BOMB

kaana: does the temp go up during OVULATION?

PHMorgan: I had a bitch who would NEVER stand. WE finally gave up and took them to the vet (it was during the holidays, too) and left them for 5 days to have AIs done.

KyKathy: just so i know what is al

loganisle: we did that on the last two - found out that the bitch who should have taken didn't and the one who was almost past ovulation had

PHMorgan: We got them home, put them both out in the yard to potty, and the boogers had a 45 minute tie

PHChristy: Dr. Hutch says that due date is 63 days post ovulation, not 59

PHChristy: I just looked it up

newfy_nr: artificial insemination

PHMorgan: AI=artificial insemination

libertyhill: okay....I'll keep guessing then :)

PHChristy: "her due date is 63 days from her ovulation date, NOT breeding date "

travlinpom: a little easier with the toy dogs, i can hold a girl that doesnt want to stand . . . of course, I hold EVERY girl that i breed

KyKathy: oh..thanks

loganisle: to the vet for AI??? We do it all ourselves.

ode2adream: lol

PHMorgan: I'm not sure on temperature during ovulation.

kaana: oh

newfy_nr: logan where did you learn to do ai?

PHChristy: logan, well, if you really want to make it happen with AI, you should do surgical insemination. It has the highest success rate.

MESAshelties_nr: How about training the boy???

newfy_nr: is it vaginal ?

travlinpom: Christy, geez, all my books say 59 days . . . guess we disagree with Hutch on this one

loganisle: ummm - the English Bulldog breeder

PHChristy: LOL trav, I do disagree with him on a few things.

loganisle: yes, it is vaginal AI Newfy

PHChristy: but this appears to be more in the nature of facts, not opinions, so I'm not sure what to think

PHMorgan: I'm not sure on that one, either. Often if the boy won't perform, an AI is your only option. I've never had a boy who wasn't er... Don Juan

KyKathy: how do you obtain the semen

ode2adream: rofl

loganisle: oh

PHChristy: KyKathy, you collect the dog manually

loganisle: well

loganisle: ummm

loganisle: LOL

loganisle: with a baby bottle liner. . .if you have one handy

travlinpom: Christy, i can get you one of the references before the end of this chat

PHMorgan: I'm NOT describing that

kaana: [img id=em-6]

KyKathy: you are kidding me right

loganisle: <----- has no kids

PHChristy: I personally go to the vet and let them do it

loganisle: lol

PHMorgan: NOPE

loganisle: nope

PHChristy: KyKathy, not at all

ode2adream: rofl

ode2adream: bet your boys LOVE the vet.

PHChristy: moving on ...

PHChristy: ROFL

loganisle: ode - having a good time over there?

KyKathy: lol...

newfy_nr: morgan TCi is better than sugery Ai

KyKathy: sorry to be so naive

Clicker59: OK Christie

loganisle: no problem

PHMorgan: I think it's easier on the bitch, Newfy

loganisle: email me privately and I'll tell you all about it

ode2adream: Yup:P

KyKathy: what is tci

PHMorgan: No anetsthesia

PHMorgan: Trans-cervical INsemination

newfy_nr: no tci requires no anesthetic

newfy_nr: yup

loganisle: what kind of funds are tied up in that?

KyKathy: what is the difference

PHMorgan: THey insert a tiny pipette thru the cervix to deliver the sperm directly into the uterus, bypassing the vaginal canal

PHMorgan: SHortens the distance the sperm has to travel (again a plus for shorter-lived frozen semen)

loganisle: Ok - question Morgan

KyKathy: oh...and female has no problem with that

newfy_nr: morgan do you think surgical is better than tci for results?

PHMorgan: Depends on teh vet - I know of one who will do it for $350, another who charges over $1500

loganisle: when you AI, how far do you insert the tube? Cuz I was taught to put it in quite far. . . measure it to the first rib from the rear, anyway

PHMorgan: THe repro vets I've spoken to say both are effective. I've never used either

loganisle: and that's on shelties

PHChristy: Hi, sammy!

PHMorgan: Logan - I don't know - I have my vet do it

loganisle: oh

loganisle: hmmm

sammy_nr: hi there

PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic is "Getting It Done: Tips for Actual Breeding"

newfy_nr: does anyone guide the males penis in?

travlinpom: I just talked to my vet about collecting for a chilled insemination and he would charge $50 per collection . . . of course that has nothing to do with the bitch and what their vet would charge

PHMorgan: I think it's useful to try and get it as close to the cervix as possible - since that is the opening right into the uterus

MESAshelties_nr: I could have used this topic last month.....

loganisle: well I've never had my dog watch another one to figure it out

loganisle: they always had to learn on their own

MESAshelties_nr: but we did Ok.....

PHMorgan: Newfy - if the dog will permit it, it can sometimes be helpful, and can help avoid an outside tie.

libertyhill: question

loganisle: an experienced bitch who's an easy breeder for a first timer is best, imho

MESAshelties_nr: one notural tie, 2 AI on one bitch

loganisle: she can show him what to do and get things where they need to be

KyKathy: do the females every contract utis from all the handling

MESAshelties_nr: and 3 AI's on the other bitch / dog

PHMorgan: ONe thing that is helpful with a stud dog is NOT to overdiscipline him for humping other dogs - I'm not saying you allow it ALL THE TIME, but let your other dogs tell him to quit it - ifYOU are constantly discouraging it, he might never want to do it

travlinpom: newfy, i hold the bitch with a finger on each side of her vulva and guide the boy from there

libertyhill: what would make an EXPERIENCED veteran stud dog THINK a bitch was ready when she wouldln't stand and protested violently?

MESAshelties_nr: we will have babies in a month

loganisle: of course, my current boy is still waiting for a girl to get all his own. . . lol

PHMorgan: KY - they can

PHMorgan: LIberty - the dogs have sensory input we can't even begin to imagine. They know when she is ovulating

loganisle: Liberty - smell

loganisle: they can smell ovulation, I swear

PHMorgan: And I've often heard of studs refusing bitches who were KNOWN to be ovulating, only to find out later that she had an infection

newfy_nr: my mothern law does that for her tibbies but its a problem for me with the newfs

loganisle: On overdisciplining - I know someone who wouldn't even let her dog lick himself

loganisle: she never got puppies from him

KyKathy: how many litters a year should a female bare and remain healthy

newfy_nr: i cant see even if i bandage the hair up

loganisle: he went sterile for no reason

PHMorgan: Yep - can be an issue

libertyhill: ok, so PERHAPS my bitch had ovulated a few days before she got bred. That would help me on due date..

PHMorgan: Ky - that is a topic for much discussion

PHMorgan: I personally do not like my bitches to breed more often than once a year.

loganisle: Newfy - try VetWrap bandages for tails

travlinpom: newfy, LOL, yep, i can just see you trying to get a hand under your bitch . . . . bit easier with the poms

loganisle: then you have to trim the rest

PHMorgan: REproductive vets say that it's much healthier for your bitch if she is bred back-to-back (healthier for the uterus)

loganisle: depends on the bith

loganisle: *bitch

KyKathy: ok on the average

loganisle: in shelties, some come in every 6 months, some as late as every 12 months

loganisle: I've even seen some that waited 18 months

PHMorgan: It can be useful to trim the coat around the vulva on heavily coated bitches - you might want that cleared for whelping anyhow

newfy_nr: i have even bandaged the pants! and waist on the dogs!

loganisle: in the longer cases, we would breed every heat if she was important to the program and was in good health

PHMorgan: For me, it depends on how well the bitch did with the whelping, the raising of the litter - did she get her figure back and is she in good hard condition again.

loganisle: for the 6 monthers, we'll sometimes breed back to back then skip a heat or two

PHMorgan: Or does she need a bit more time to be of "prime physical condition" before I breed her again

newfy_nr: i find the bitches seem to lose the coat they need during the last week of pregnacey which saves me trimming unless we end in a c section

PHMorgan: That's useful to know, newfy - I have pointers, so.... LOL

loganisle: a lot depends on the bitch and what we are using her for - show, brood, pet, performance. . .

KyKathy: how many litters total for a females lifetime

PHMorgan: Mine are already nekkid

loganisle: totally depends on the bitch

loganisle: if she's in good health, it's hard to say

loganisle: but I don't breed them until they're 2 and have all health testing

PHMorgan: Again it depends on the bitch. I have one who had two and we quite because she had a difficult section

PHMorgan: I have another who is hopefully preggers wiuth her 3rd litter, and while I likely will not do a 4th, I suspect she will be fit enough for it.

KyKathy: you breed from 2 yo until when usually

loganisle: then I usually won't breed much after 6 years of age - sometimes 8 years if it's a very important bitch and still in good health

newfy_nr: i have been told if you do back to back then rest it raises the fertiltiy level

PHMorgan: MIne are usually 3-4, but I have bred bitches at 2

loganisle: but usually I start looking for companion homes when they hit 5 or 6

PHMorgan: I don't like to breed mine much past 6-7 years - but pointesr are healthy until they are 10 or 11. I have a 12 year old here who could run circles around many 8 year olds I know

loganisle: I've heard/read that if you want a bitch to maintain her fertility, breed her for the first time before she's 4 because after that fertility goes down

PHMorgan: Newfy - I don't know if that's true

KyKathy: lol..which i felt that good

ode2adream: question

loganisle: I have a bitch here who's dam had her first litter at 3 1/2 years

newfy_nr: i wont breed befor 2 and not after 7 unless the bitch is up to it i have one i have decided will stop at 6 as she is aging quicker than i expected

PHMorgan: I do know the reproductive vets say it is the healtiest for the uterus

loganisle: and my girl here had her only litter at 4 years

loganisle: both had nice sized litters

PHMorgan: You have to know what is going on with your bitch and her lines and of course there is the consideration of whether you liked the pups - is she producing what you want?

KyKathy: what is a good size litter for a small breed

loganisle: yup

loganisle: how small of a breed?

KyKathy: toys...

ode2adream: what about feeding the bitch, I've heard that during or shortly after breeding to feed her more to help the pregnancy take, as the bitch's body will only keep as many pups as she feels she can feed with what she's being fed? Myth or some truth?

loganisle: I have a litter of 7 right now from a fresh chilled AI

PHMorgan: I think it's VERY useful to have some time between litters so you can see what you have produced before you choose another stud, or whether you will breed her again AT ALL

loganisle: that's a large litter for a sheltie

loganisle: average is around 3-5, depending on the lines

PHMorgan: Ode - I don't up my bitches until week 4 or 5

loganisle: some lines consistently only have 2-3

loganisle: I'm with Morgan on that one

PHMorgan: And I've had some rather large litters

ode2adream: *nodnod*

loganisle: We change them over to puppy food about 2 weeks before birth

PHMorgan: YOu certainly don't want her on a diet during breeding

MESAshelties_nr: Oh? Logan...... I have a bitch that had 11 in ist litter and 12 in her 2nd.....

KyKathy: why puppy food

PHMorgan: And if she NEEDS a diet, get her in shape LONG before you breed her

loganisle: that's a LOT of puppies for a sheltie Mesa

MESAshelties_nr: she is an over achiever!! LOL!

PHMorgan: MOre calories, less bulk - some bitches have trouble fitting the food IN when preggers

travlinpom: Poms average 2 puppies a litter . . . lots of one puppy litters

loganisle: The largest litter I've personally seen was of 9 and that was my first AI

MESAshelties_nr: and she is bred now

newfy_nr: has anyone tried the royal canin reproductive food?

loganisle: the longer bodied ones seem to have more room

MESAshelties_nr: should have a rainbow litter

loganisle: Royal Canin in itself makes great food, imho

loganisle: wow

PHMorgan: I had a litter of 10 and the last 3 weeks, I had to feed the bitch 4-5 times a day to keep her weight up. Even still, after she delivered the litter she was VERY thin

ode2adream: won't the jigher calcium in puppy food also benifit the bitch and pups?

loganisle: whom is she bred to?

KyKathy: how do you decide what you want to breed to ...full or split breeds

ode2adream: erm..higher even

PHMorgan: Certainly it will, ode

ode2adream: split breeds?

loganisle: Only purebreds here

loganisle: I love my shelties

travlinpom: split breeds?

newfy_nr: i use royal canin but am going to trythe reproductive one for the first time next month

PHMorgan: OK - let's get back to breeding - we have some of these topics to cover in the coming weeks

MESAshelties_nr: she is a CHW blie bred to my Ch. sable

PHMorgan: Any more questions about the dirty deed?

libertyhill: ummm purebred only here

PHMorgan: Or comments? Stories?

loganisle: nice

MESAshelties_nr: OOPS... blue merle

KyKathy: two diff breeds...sorry

libertyhill: irrelevant question...

loganisle: web page Mesa?

MESAshelties_nr: I think Brandon is bi factored

ode2adream: why breed a mutt on purpose?

travlinpom: Why would you want to breed mutts?

libertyhill: oh do you mine like having two breeds that you show/breed?

MESAshelties_nr: not yet..... by the end of the week it should be ready

KyKathy: loved my peke a poo

libertyhill: mine=mean

Clicker59: Pom You Know how I feel about Breeding

travlinpom: oh please . . . that is not a breed

libertyhill: plenty to be found in shelters though KYKathy

KyKathy: ah...sorry

PHChristy: folks, let's stick to the topic for now... thanks.

PHMorgan: THey are very cute, tho! LOL

libertyhill: relevant yet irrelevant question, please?

KyKathy: my best friend for 13 years

Clicker59: NP Christie

PHChristy: there are many cute and wonderful and loveable dogs in the world, who should never, ever be bred

PHMorgan: NOw - the worst breeding story I have I happily wasn't present

PHMorgan: I sent my Z to be bred to a dog who was at his field trainers

Clicker59: Christie very true that is why I don't breed

loganisle: I think the disciplining of a future stud dog is a big thing

PHMorgan: So they decide to do the breeding out in the training yard. Which is adjacent to the barn.

loganisle: that should definitely not be overlooked

PHMorgan: And they have a nice tie. Then a quail flies over

PHMorgan: BOth dogs are now spinning around, trying to track the quail, which lands near the barn

libertyhill: my bitch's paternal grandmother was bred once, had a difficult, premature birth...she was spayed right afterwards...all three puppies survived and all three finished.....

newfy_nr: hahha i can see where this is going

KyKathy: KyKathy is a mutt...so i guess i fall for the trap

PHMorgan: NOw both dogs are struggling to point the bird WHILE TIED

ode2adream: rofl

Clicker59: Morgan LOL

libertyhill: oh I can't keep up

PHMorgan: both the people holding the dogs forgot their coats.... And they are trying very hard to keep the dogs from hurting each other. And there is no 3rd person to shoo the bird away

PHMorgan: So....

animalcarker: you could just zip on down to your local animal shelter if you want another peke a poo. plus you'd be saving a life :)

PHMorgan: They have to stand there with the dogs

PHMorgan: And it begins to sleet

ode2adream: oh boy..

PHMorgan: Did I mention it was a 45 minute tie?

ode2adream: lol

KyKathy: why that animal

PHMorgan: In the sleet? NO coat?

Clicker59: Liberty that's OK Ask Christie for the Transcript

travlinpom: oh i am SO glad that i have a toy breed and do my breedings IN the house!!! LOL

PHMorgan: The subsequent breedings were OUTSIDE

PHMorgan: I mean, inside

ode2adream: lol

KyKathy: lol

PHMorgan: We did get 7 lovely pups, all very birdy... LOL

newfy_nr: lol morgan

PHChristy: all's well that ends well

KyKathy: lol..ends well...lol

PHMorgan: Exactly - and *I* wasn't there... hehehe

Clicker59: LOL That is what happened when Taffy & the cocker next store went Opps out side LOL

PHChristy: WB libertyhill

Clicker59: LIBERTY wb

newfy_nr: ok here a question if you are guiding an xlg dog in do you hold the penis behind the bulb?

libertyhill: does anyone frequent the message boards? It looks fairly dead

PHMorgan: It just so happened that for that breeding, Z had to be away from home during the Christmas holiday. This time, she held off and didn't come INTO season until Christmas day, so she wouldn't miss the holiday with us

PHChristy: libertyhill, yes, it is very slow... I'd love to see that change!

PHMorgan: Newfy - you want to do thatm yes, and don't exert too much pressure or you will have a premature ejaculation

PHChristy: The chat is always busy but the forum not... http://forums.doghobbyist.com/forum.php?catid=23

libertyhill: I'll ask my question there :)

PHChristy: PHSmDog and I read it religiously :)

PHChristy: I post there usually as Deerhounds

libertyhill: maybe that's a forum I've not yet visited. ok, thanks.

PHMorgan: Feel free to ask it here, if you like, LIberty

ode2adream: I find the board format to be difficult to navigate. I'm spoiled tho.

newfy_nr: so shave them hold them have 3-4 people etc - oh i give up i think ill stick with AI

PHMorgan: As you can see, none of us is shy

Clicker59: Morgan so how do you handle that on Christmas Day?

Clicker59: Morgan I'm Not right Christie?

PHMorgan: She didn't need to be bred until about 10 days after she started her season, so we had plenty of time to celebrate and then go have a honeymoon

libertyhill: ok, how likely is it for my bitch to have inherited from her paternal grandmother a tendency to premature labor/difficult birth?

newfy_nr: very high

PHMorgan: I'm not sure you can get nUMBERS on that, LIberty, but whelping difficulties do run in family lines

PHChristy: I don't think anyone can say exactly how likely it is, but it's certainly possible.

newfy_nr: both mother and daughter c sectioned on thier second litter

PHChristy: that's a worry

PHMorgan: I chose a line of stud dogs who were full of easy whelpers because my bitch came from a line of dogs who had uterine inertia

libertyhill: her OWN mother has had no problems....

PHMorgan: None of her daughters had trouble

PHChristy: Hi, nuncio! welcome to dog breeding chat!

PHMorgan: LIbert - it can happen

newfy_nr: we have worse problem with newfs here

libertyhill: ok, I'll be cautious....I am anyway.

PHMorgan: It's good information to have - you know what to look for

newfy_nr: health issues and lack of good gene pool it is to small

PHMorgan: Yes

PHMorgan: That is always a problem

libertyhill: yes....very good to keep in mind.

newfy_nr: i am looking at trying frozen semen being imported as its so small here

libertyhill: the paternal granddam was bred only once...after that birth she was spayed. All three puppies survived, thrived and are outstanding dogs.

PHMorgan: Do you folks want to do another lecture chat next week, or have a more interactive topic?

newfy_nr: what a shame she may have been fine with her next litter

Clicker59: More interactive

PHMorgan: We can do an AI lecture and have more discussion afterwards just like this week

libertyhill: are the topics posted in advance somewhre? I tried to find it but could not.

PHChristy: Hi, SingingSibe! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat

PHChristy: libertyhill, yes, we mail them out

Clicker59: Morgan goody

newfy_nr: ai would be good

SingingSibe: hi

PHMorgan: Liberty - we do send reminders but we don't usually post the topics too far in advance in case one of us can't be here

PHChristy: you can sign up to get the reminder here: http://www.doghobbyist.com/DogBreeding.html

loganisle: for AI info and kits check out CloneUSA

Clicker59: Liberty those are called Chat Reminders

libertyhill: thanks!

loganisle: that's where we got our stuff from

loganisle: for the chilleds

PHChristy: I'll try to post them on the forum each week from now on when I do the reminders

kaana: Before you go, can someone e-mail me and let me know how to guide the male on the bitch? My male is so darn horny that manages to tie outside of the bitch..any special secret about that?

newfy_nr: i am after a dry shipper but the ai companies dont seem to do them

PHChristy: I've had puppies from an outside tie

travlinpom: kaana, what breed?

PHMorgan: Kaana - you might try um... letting him have that outside tie first, then try to breed the bitch a few hours later hoping he will be SOMEWHAT calmer

kaana: well I usually end up doing an AI