More Resources Resource Center & Chat Transcripts Dog Breeders Chat Tuesdays 9-10 PM Eastern Time Get a free email reminder of our weekly dog breeders' chat, from DogHobbyist.com! Email Address: Showdog Chat Tuesdays 10-11 PM Eastern Time Dog Breeding Forum DogHobbyist.com DogHobbyist.com Dog Forums/Boards Dog Chats Dog Photo Gallery Subscribe to DogHobbyist News, the free email newsletter of DogHobbyist.com! Email Address:

PHChristy: hi golden123! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is When NOT to breed.

PHChristy: thinking about all the disappointments I"ve had, of course, but also thinking about the time lag that I had, five years, of not breeding

PHChristy: Hi again bert, and hi there Sams!

Sarasmushu: wb berta

EClatSPs: What's held you back, Christy?

berta: who kicked everyone out

PHMorgan: Lack of female bodies

Clicker59: Berta WB

EClatSPs: A C-A-T!

PHMorgan: My Cat, Berta.... LOL

EClatSPs: OK.

PHChristy: That five year lag was a deliberate choice, because our family was involved in a legal struggle over a business we owned, and I didn't have the money on hand to deal with a problem if it arose

PHChristy: at that time, I had two breedable bitches

PHChristy: one became too old during those five years, and the other became, well... five years old

PHChristy: I bred her at around 5 and a half, the first possible moment I had enough money to do it responsibly

PHChristy: and good thing too as she required a c-section

PHChristy: Hello kburgess! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is When NOT to breed.

Kburgess2000: Hi

PHChristy: Anyway....

PHMorgan: That's happened to a friend of mine with a lovely greyhound bitch - she was waiting to get over a Lyme's infection, and by the time that had been completely cleared, she was too old

PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"

PHChristy: that delay cost me a lot in terms of mny goals

PHChristy: but it was the only responsible thing I could have done

EClatSPs: Yep, but sometimes life gets in the way...

PHMorgan: Yes, it does.

PHChristy: and, looking at the silver lining, because of that delay, I became aware of an emerging genetic problem in my lines and was able to avoid perpetuating that problem, unknowingly

PHMorgan: I've skipped many an opportunity to breed a litter due to life stuff, money stuff or awaiting the result of health issues

PHChristy: But I also wish I'd been able to breed her younger, and get maybe two litters from her... when I did breed her, she had only a singleton

PHChristy: a male

PHChristy: not breeding quality

EClatSPs: Too bad...

PHChristy: yes

PHMorgan: I think it's a big deal to keep in mind that sometimes pups go right out the door, sometimes pups hang around - not always due to litter quality - sometimes things just happen. YOu have to be financially and "environmentally" prepared

PHChristy: so, life circumstances and trying to do the ethical thing, are two reasons NOT to breed

PHChristy: and EMOTIONALLY prepared, too, I think

PHChristy: psychologically, whatever you want to call it

PHMorgan: IT's easy for me to keep a few pups around NOW that I have the facilities, but for years it was a near thing how well I could manage a few "older" pups and for how long!

PHChristy: Hi, plaid! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is When NOT to breed.

plaid_nr: good topic

EClatSPs: I may not breed my bitch again.

PHChristy: right now, I don't want to breed because I've decided I need to cut my numbers, and also focus on my dog with osteo.

PHChristy: EClat, why? I thought you were very happy with the breeding?

PHMorgan: I also have a good friend in Canada who has some really top notich dogs - but she never breeds because the market for pups in Canada is just not good

PHMorgan: (for her breed)

EClatSPs: I haven't decided for sure yet, but am leaning towards leaving her at just this one litter.

PHChristy: NOt that I think you SHOULD.... I tend to think we should breed on from our bitch's best daughther sooner than breed our bitch a second time

PHChristy: I was just curious

PHChristy: Morgan, what's her breed?

EClatSPs: I am totally thrilled with the breeding, but my girl is nothing really special and I think I'll put myself much further ahead by waiting to breed these puppies.

PHMorgan: Pointers

EClatSPs: And then I won't be battling the numbers game so soon,either.

PHMorgan: She just buys nice dogs from other breeders. She doesn't feel it's right to breed a litter she can't place

PHChristy: I overall do think that usually we should breed on from our puppies, rather than repeating breedings, unless we didn't get what we wanted gender-wise or color-wise

PHMorgan: A bitch she co-owns will actually be brought to the US to be bred so that the co-owner can place all th epups for her

PHChristy: Morgan, that makes good sense.

PHChristy: there is just SO little market for deerhound puppies, if the west coast had several litters in the last few years, you could easily glut the market

EClatSPs: I agree, Christy, and if I do decide to breed her again, I'll go a very different direction with chosing a stud in terms of color, pedigree, etc.

PHChristy: I remember once there were about 4 litters in a two year period, and that fourth litter, the breeder had a VERY difficult time

PHChristy: EClat, again I'm just curious, but if you were happy with the breeding, why do you want to automatically go in a different direction?

PHChristy: esp if you feel what you got improved on your bitch

Sarasmushu: Hi Golden

PHChristy: hi golden123! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is When NOT to breed.

PHChristy: LOL, anyone there?

Sarasmushu: Kinda

EClatSPs: There are several reasons... For one, since this was a line breeding, I'll do an outcross to see how she produces going that direction. Also, it gives me more diversity among my dogs to hopefully still have a line going if I develop a health issue somewhere down the road.

Sarasmushu: i'm just trying to read all the info

PHMorgan: I think if you are looking for improvement on your bitch in more than one area, you might choose two different dogs to work on those items

EClatSPs: That's part of it, too, Morgan.

PHChristy: I wonder, Eclat, you might not do better to stay closer to your bitch's breeding in the beginning, rather than going out immediately?

PHChristy: and yes, that's a good idea, to use different dogs

PHMorgan: I began my breeding program by combining two lines which I admired for different reasons. I bred a number of bitches to the same dog and am still working on setting my type

PHMorgan: It seems to be working since folks are beginning to recognize my stuff without a catalog

PHChristy: I have been thinking a lot lately that, because we need to keep our numbers smaller than the old fashioned breeders did, we need to have co-breeders and partners in our breeding programs so we can have more diversity available to us

PHChristy: without having to keep a kennel

EClatSPs: That's exactly what I did with the litter I have here and I plan to breed these guys back *very* close, but I think an outcross would give me a big picgture idea of how Harley produces.

EClatSPs: picture

PHMorgan: I think a really hard thing is to decide is whether to breed our bitch a second time if you DIDN'T like the first litter

Clicker59: I got sidetrack because of a stay coming in the yard at 4 in the morning & waking me & Douchie up at for in the morning sorry if I am not here & getting off the topic

PHMorgan: I think it can be very hard to evaluate where the "fault" lies in the get you have produced

Clicker59: [img id=em-2]

EClatSPs: If I hadn't liked what was produced, I would have definately spayed this girl.

PHChristy: I have a breeding partner now and we are hoping to buy two bitches, or share one bitch and breed her in two different directions

PHChristy: and while we're both on the west coast, she's up in Washington and I'm in CA, so we aren't in each other's backyards

PHChristy: Hey there Wiches! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is When NOT to breed.

PHMorgan: It's helpful if you know what the stud has produced so you can see if it's more "him" or "her" not so much to point fingers, but to decide if going in a different direction will give you what you had wanted the first time

Clicker59: Hi Wichs

Wiches_nr: Hi!

PHChristy: this enables us to keep more dogs and hopefully prevent what happened to me from happening again

Clicker59: Whiched

PHChristy: I can start over once, but I really cant' face it again after this!

Clicker59: Christie which is?

PHChristy: having to start over

PHMorgan: That's a good plan, Christy

berta: I don't necessarily think that a bitch having a litter that's not what you had hoped is a reason to not breed her again depending on how much research went into the choice in the first place.

PHMorgan: Berta - I agree - it's hard to know what the right choice is.

EClatSPs: With my situation, it would have been.

Clicker59: Christie what happened sorry that I am behind

PHMorgan: If Solo's second litter had been her first, I might not have DONE the first breeding..... I bred her to two related dogs, one of whom produced a great litter, the other was mediocre - and the studs were father & son

berta: I also like to see the produce old enough to judge if it does meet my approval prior to deciding whether to do another breeding with that bitch or say YAH !!!

EClatSPs: I had already decided that well before doing the breeding which had been planned since she was just over a year old (so for nearly two years...).

PHMorgan: I agree, Berta

PHMorgan: I try to have two years between litters on a bitch for that reason

Clicker59: Morgan good

berta: I also am not a fan of repeat breedings......... what purpose does that serve?

PHChristy: it's not just our BITCHES we need to start younger, I think WE need to start younger too

PHChristy: berta, only if you didn't get the genders you wanted

PHChristy: or possibly in some breeds, the color or some other trait like that

PHChristy: esp in toy breeds where you get so few pups in a litter

PHChristy: I can see it there

EClatSPs: , Christy, I agree. I'm only 28 and this litter totally wore me out!

PHChristy: ROFL Eclat

PHChristy: I hear THAT!

berta: LOL of course with a litter like Kyrie had of very comparable boys I would have been tempted to do another breeding to get the girl I was after

PHMorgan: They do keep us busy

Wiches_nr: Do you guys do ever use a maiden bitch for a fresh chilled breeding?

EClatSPs: I keep saying that Harley could have easily handled doing back to back litters, but I'm the one who needed a bread.

EClatSPs: break.

PHMorgan: I hear that, Eclat

PHMorgan: I always need a break and the other adults need to get some of that quality time I've been spending on MOmdog and the pups

PHChristy: Wiches, I never have

PHMorgan: brb - daughter sneaked out without feeding my guys and they are revolting

EClatSPs: But I wouldn't trade it for the world...

Wiches_nr: I have not either.

Clicker59: OK Christie

PHChristy: I WOULD use a fresh chilled on a maiden bitch, I just never have

PHChristy: you're risking not knowing for sure that she can produce pups

Sarasmushu: I like this I'm learning even though I don't plan on breeding ever

Wiches_nr: But then I don't do the dream breeding because I am using a more "local" stud.

PHChristy: but if she's young and you can afford the money and to risk the semen, I say go for it

EClatSPs: I know someone who did and had a very large litter result. She did fresh frozen shipped in to Oklahoma from Australia for this same bitch's second litter and again had a very nice sized litter.

Clicker59: You wouldn't believe what Honey's Litter did by the time they were 6 weeks old I was phyiscally worn out

PHChristy: I took Rosie all the way to Eastern Canada from California to breed her, if I had it to do over again I'd have done an AI and kept her home

EClatSPs: What breed, Clicker?

PHChristy: but I was obsessed with natural breedings

PHChristy: SmDog!

Sarasmushu: Hi Smdog

PHSmDog: Sorry I'm late... work ran over, and over and over and... LOL

PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "When Not to Breed"

Clicker59: A mixt & Clat it wsas a Opps

PHSmDog: Hey Everyone

Clicker59: Hi Smdog

PHChristy: I still am obsessed with natural breedings, but I think I've mellowed a bit as I've gotten older. If the stud is 4000 miles away, I'll compromise.

EClatSPs: Hey, SmDog, mine did, too!

PHSmDog: How is everyone this evening

PHSmDog: Christy... I figure if they can't get it done naturally there may be something wrong...

Clicker59: I wasn't planning to breeding her when the Opps took place but that was 17 or 18 years agl

EClatSPs: That's teh way I look at it, too, SmDog.

PHSmDog: EClat, I don't fool with Mother Nature too much

Wiches_nr: I want to use a dog in Ca, but had a maiden bitch so bred her to a dog in PA for her first time.

EClatSPs: That happened with a dog I had as a kid, too, Clicker.

Clicker59: LOL

PHMorgan: I think it's hard to give up those natural breedings on a maiden bitch - I think it's better for them

PHMorgan: But a second breeding, any which way you can!

PHChristy: SmDog I do also, however, I was just saying that I wouldn't rule out an AI if it saved my bitch from having to travel 4000 miles

Clicker59: That has happend to me twice with female cocker too way back in 1874 too LOL

EClatSPs: That's one of the greatest things about technology.

Clicker59: 1974 I mean

PHSmDog: Morgan, as you all may remember, it took Bailey and Raisin (BOTH new at this) Five days to figure it out...but they got it done

PHMorgan: I just had to have a little chat with one of my co-owners

Clicker59: Hi Jo

PHMorgan: She was asked to lease Duncan's sister to be bred to a stud dog in CA

PHMorgan: (not taht far from her)

PHMorgan: Very scary pedigree

PHMorgan: I remember, Smdog

Sarasmushu: ok well I"m gonna scoot For the moment this isn't the place for me since I dont' care for breeding

PHChristy: Hi, jo890! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "When NOT to Breed"

Sarasmushu: Night all

PHChristy: night Sara!

PHChristy: see you later I hope!

Clicker59: OK Sara

PHMorgan: I told her to blame it on me and say I already had 2 breedings planned for her... LOL

PHMorgan: Night, Sara - come again

PHChristy: LOL MOrgan

PHSmDog: Christy... well... I'm kind of paranoid about AI unless the vet does them. Know ofsomeone who had a uterus rupted due to an AI

Clicker59: Christie Sara will be back trust me

PHMorgan: Not that hard to do with Toys

Wiches_nr: I have a vet tech who does them.

PHSmDog: Morgan no kidding... it was sad...she was a nice bitch

PHChristy: SmDog, I wouldn't even dream of having anyone other than a repro specialist do it!

Clicker59: [img id=em-5]

PHSmDog: Christy, I know that...

PHMorgan: Me either

PHMorgan: Even on a large dog

Clicker59: Do what

PHChristy: Clicker, aritifical insemination

Clicker59: Christie thanks

PHSmDog: THis was an experienced breeder who'd been doing it for years

EClatSPs: Most breeders I know regularly do their own.

PHSmDog: But it only takes one

PHChristy: If I was going to all that trouble, I'd probably do a transcervical insemination anyway

EClatSPs: These are with miniature and standard poodles...don't know if that makes any difference.

Wiches_nr: My vet tech is certified and has been a tech for years at a specialty practice.

PHSmDog: Ah heck, I just let the dog do it then stand the girl on her head...LOL

PHChristy: Wiches, well that's to me the same. You are doing it at the vet, not doing it in the family room

PHChristy: ROFL SmDog

berta: That's what I finally did with Kyrie as the dog I chose didn't get it together and her age was creeping up

PHChristy: my rule about AI is, never to get a breeding from dogs who can't or won't breed naturally

PHMorgan: I've tried that with pointers - does'nt work

PHMorgan: LOL

PHChristy: but sometimes circumstances are what they are, and for that I might do it

PHSmDog: Christy...I'm not kidding

PHChristy: but if the stud dog is far away, or dead or extremely old, or one of the two has some kind of injury... I'd do it

PHChristy: Hello al, Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "When NOT to Breed"

EClatSPs: BRB. Need to go turn the AC down before it freezes up again. Forgot to do it...

berta: I did NOT use THAT stud

PHChristy: I know one breeder who did it because her bitch had a back injury. This bitch had had a naturally bred litter before, though, so she knew she could and would breed naturally

PHSmDog: OH when not to breed... WOW now that's a wide open topic

PHMorgan: That's fair enough, altho I'm not sure I would breed a bitch with a back injury and then ask her to carry a litter

PHChristy: SmDog, yes, we discussed mostly life circumstances so far....

PHMorgan: Stud dog, surely, but the bitch?

PHChristy: Morgan, I have to agree.

berta: Kyrie would stand there and stand there and he'd get on and get off until she got really pissed at him

PHChristy: It wouldn't ahve been my choice.

PHChristy: LOL berta

PHMorgan: It's not like dogs can do bedrest

PHMorgan: LOL

PHSmDog: How about this... I posted on the Yorkie Message Boards a REALLY good answer to this very question....

berta: Kyrie does get pissed at the boys quite easily though

PHSmDog: Course that wasn't a show/breeder either

PHChristy: I'll go look

PHMorgan: I have also put off breeding a litter if I knew of quite a few litters planned in my breed for a given period of time

PHSmDog: Hey VAL

PHMorgan: There are only so many homes out there

PHChristy: Hi there Val! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "When NOT to Breed"

berta: I wasn't talking abut you honest Kyrie

Valkyrie: Hiya

PHMorgan: And I've chosen not to breed a litter when I knew pups might arrive and be growing up in December & January - too cold for them to go outdoors

EClatSPs: I'm back.

berta: Oh my pups LOVE to go out in the snow

PHChristy: I love that post, SmDog

jo890_nr: I agree no january litters way too cold

PHSmDog: Morgan I've chosen not to breed lately because I just haven't had the energy I KNOW it takes to get them here, healthy and happy

PHSmDog: Christy... Thanks. It was one of my better ones

PHChristy: Here it is if anyone would like to read it: http://forums.doghobbyist.com/view.php?id=93180,93222

PHSmDog: And the truth

PHChristy: <---lives in California LOL

PHChristy: I don't mind them being born in the late winter

PHChristy: then they can go out in the spring

berta: everytime I try to go somewhere and look at something it takes me a week to get back

PHSmDog: Heck I'm in Washington and I don't mind December/January/February litters

Clicker59: What did I miss since I went to get Douchie in & My Piano Teacher showed up

Wiches_nr: I have bred my five year old bitch twice this year with bad results--resorbed 50 day old pups and a stillborn the second time. I had her recently spayed. I now will breed only younger bitches.

PHChristy: Wiches, yes, I've made that vow too

PHSmDog: So, those of you who have show/stud dogs, what do you say to someone who say comes to you with a different breed wanting to breed to your stud dog?

Clicker59: Honey's Litter were born on Jan.2,1978

PHChristy: a different BREED?

Wiches_nr: Too heartwrenching...

jo890_nr: no

berta: NO !! but nicely

PHChristy: well, if they are breeding lurchers or some kind of working hunting hound, or sled dogs (it has happened several times) I turn them down without being too mean

PHSmDog: Yep... case in point... someone came to me with a Shih Tzu wanting to breed to one of my yorkie males because a friend had done it and the pups were SOOOOO cute.

PHChristy: I dont' necessarily disapprove of those uses of a dog, just not MY dogs

EClatSPs: There are a couple of people in my breed (not breeders themselves) who are bound and determined that no dog or bitch should be bred before five years of age.

Clicker59: Christie I don't blame you

PHChristy: however, if someone wanted it just for pets or to make money I'd skewer them

PHChristy: EClat, yes, I hear that a lot.

PHSmDog: And NO, I was NOT NICE

PHChristy: I suppose in the smaller, longer lived breeds it's not the end of the world, but I think that 2-3 years is better

berta: alot of various sled dog and weight pull competitors have inquired

Valkyrie: There's a woman a few cities over that breeds her boxer and lab regularly.

berta: ugh

PHChristy: I have had sled dog folks want to use my deerhounds. They sometimes use greyhounds but they seem to think with the deerhounds they can get the speed and still have some coat

PHChristy: whatever, but not MY dogs

Wiches_nr: I prefer not to randomly breed.

PHMorgan: I haev had at least 3 different sled dog folks contact me to breed to my dogs or buy one for breeding

PHSmDog: Same here...NOT one my kids

PHMorgan: They want the heart, stamina and run

PHChristy: Wiches, well, these are not random breedings. They are purpose-bred dogs for performance.

PHMorgan: I just say no thanks

berta: the sled people want a mellower temperment and not the coat. the weightpullers want Kyrie & Tally's drive

Clicker59: I had that problem where somebody wanted to use Toby to breed his female Cocker & I discussed it with my mother sicne I was real leary about it & I daid No

PHChristy: but it's just not the life I want for my dogs

PHChristy: the end

PHMorgan: I think my dogs are not suited anyhow, and I do feel it's not the right way to solve the sled-dog issue - they should be breeding fitter examples of sled-dog breeds

PHSmDog: In fact... I don't stud my dogs out to ANYONE outside of myself and my mentor

Wiches_nr: Oh, would the offspring be bred as well?

Clicker59: Said no I mean

PHChristy: well, Morgan... I don't know.

PHChristy: they want the best sled dogs possible, what is the virtue of staying within one breed?

PHMorgan: Well, I would guess that dogs bred to pull sleds for hundreds of years would be the best suited dogs, but apparently not?

PHChristy: and nearly every modern breed on earth added in a bit of greyhound to get speed and.or shapeliness at some point

EClatSPs: That's much the same approach as breeding performance horses, Christy.

berta: You don't kno;w and you don't know if they don't get what they want what will be done either as they are looking for a better performance not a pet

PHChristy: Morgan, sometimes they get too slow

PHSmDog: Heck Christy... we ALL know that Yorkies make the best sled dogs...LOL

PHMorgan: Good point, Berta

PHChristy: ROFL SmDog

PHChristy: and they need speed

PHMorgan: Well, sometimes pointers don't do their job, but we don't then go use spaniels

EClatSPs: I think that's different, IMHO...

PHChristy: pointers are a breed, sled dogs are a type of dog

PHMorgan: I think you should work within your breed to improve it, not go running off to the most convenient other breed

PHChristy: defined by function, not pedigree

berta: Actually the Samoyeds primary function was to herd

PHChristy: Morgan, but they AREN'T a breed

PHMorgan: Well, there are breeds designed for sledding

PHChristy: sled dogs are all differentbreeds, and mutts

PHMorgan: Pointers aren't

EClatSPs: And they don't want to or claim to be a breed.

PHChristy: a team of standard poodles ran the Iditarod

Clicker59: Somebody wanted to use Toby to breed his Female cocker & I said No

PHChristy: good for you Clicker

PHMorgan: OK I see your point - I just don't agree with their methods

PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"

PHChristy: Hi heartcross!

Wiches_nr: These are real ethical questions...

EClatSPs: Yeah, but that was a really, really bad situation. From everything I've heard Sutter is a crazy man.

Clicker59: Chistie isn't that like me?

heartcross: hi

EClatSPs: What breed is Toby, Clicker?

berta: the alaskan husky is alot like the border collies whatever does the job best gets bred.

PHSmDog: I think of the BIG things to remember in when not to breed is that if you have to ask what do do after you've bred, then maybe you shouldn't have done it in the first place

diddybopper: hi everyone.

PHChristy: I don't really disagree with you, Morgan, just distinquishing between the issue SmDog brought up, of making poo dog crosses for pets, and performance-based breeding programs

PHMorgan: If over time they had combined various breeds to produce a good line of "sled dogs" then I could admire their work. But they don't seem to have any clear breeding program

diddybopper: dang it, wrong handle. BRB

PHChristy: Hi there seawind and diddybopper!

Clicker59: A male Cocker that is no longer with me Eclat

seawindbt: hi

PHMorgan: I see what you mean, Christy - I was being dense for a moment there

Clicker59: Hi Sea

RedyreRotties: ahhh, much better. :D

PHChristy: Hi Redrye!

PHChristy: LOL

PHSmDog: Morgan...YOU? Naw... LOL

Clicker59: Morgan LOL

PHMorgan: These breeders who've contacted me seem to have Red Dog who is strong, and want to choose the fastest dog they can get to fix his faults

RedyreRotties: I have a little brag. :D

PHMorgan: Then from there who knows where they will go

PHMorgan: Go, Red!

PHChristy: Redrye, what is it?

PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"

berta: Oh but they do Morgan....... there are lines of Alaskan just as there are in Sammies or Pointers

RedyreRotties: I won Penny's first single last weekend in Huntington. BOS too. :D

PHMorgan: Some do but many do not

PHMorgan: Excellent, Red! Wahoo

Clicker59: Morgan so how did you handle it the way I would

berta: true devotees of the "breed" can recognize a certain line

PHSmDog: Redyre... CONGRATS!

PHMorgan: Pretty much, Clicker

RedyreRotties: tyvm everyone. :D

PHChristy: Red, CONGRALTATIONS! That's fantastic!

RedyreRotties: It was her last weekend out in the puppy class.

Clicker59: Red cool

berta: It's the people who are trying to build a bette mousetrap that are still crossing breed

EClatSPs: Congrats, Red!

PHChristy: Everyone, I have a terrible headache and Morgan said it's ok if I duck out a little early... I'll see you all next week!

PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"

RedyreRotties: feel better christy

Clicker59: Hi Fireball

EClatSPs: Feel better, Christy.

PHMorgan: WB Jo

RedyreRotties: Answer: Most of the time. LOL

fireball: hi

PHMorgan: So what are some other reasons NOT to breed?

PHMorgan: Hiya, MOW!

PHSmDog: Hey MOW

seawindbt: what do you think of breeding a dog that is very nice but has a mismark on his butt (Its not a DQ, just a fault in our breed). I know of one person who bred a bitch with it and got one mismarked pup from three litters.

PHMowgli: stupid phone kept ringing

EClatSPs: I think it would depend on a lot of details, sea.

RedyreRotties: If it's not a DQ and the rest of the dog is excellent, and if the dog was the best one for mine, I'd use it in a second.

berta: cause if you're like Mow you have a really hard tme of it before you get that "perfect" litter

Clicker59: Mow I hope it isn't a emegercy

Clicker59: Hi Heart

berta: I would do it seawind

Clicker59: Hi Fasdog

PHMorgan: If a dog produces a fault, that is not necessarily a reason to NEVER use that dog. Particularly if he also produces some very useful attributes

seawindbt: thanks :-)

RedyreRotties: I have had 2 litters. One was a health/temperament NIGHTMARE, and the other was a ER section with no surviving puppies.

FasdogKira: Hi!

seawindbt: oh, NO

PHMorgan: I've used some very PLAIN headed dogs to get temperament or hunting ability

PHMorgan: Theere are always compromises

jo890_nr: just a cosmetic flaw would be no problem

PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"

PHMowgli: hey Fas

PHSmDog: Morgan it depends on the fault. Its like patella problems in yorkies...

PHSmDog: You don't throw the baby out with the bath water

PHMorgan: Red -then you are due for a speciality winner ! LOL

seawindbt: how awful. I've had three litter, first two were singletons. Most recent one was four and we lost one tiny one. Got three lovely pups right now

PHMowgli: Berta it takes me forever just to get a litter let alone perfect LOL

Clicker59: Why do you say that about useful attributes Morgan

RedyreRotties: Or elbows in Rottweilers. Up to 70% of our population is affected. We simply cannot choose to only use normal elbow dogs as much as we might like to because we would be losing too much.

berta: very true but a mismark that's not even DQ I would risk all else being excellent

seawindbt: I'm sorry Red

EClatSPs: If it were something like the parti gene in poodles which is a simple recessive, I probably wouldn't use it, but do know people who do.

PHMorgan: If you can get something outstanding in a litter, but risk a fault in SOME pups, it can be worth that risk

PHSmDog: EClat, is that hard to get away from?

PHMorgan: YOu cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater

EClatSPs: Yes, very hard to get away from once it's in your lines.

RedyreRotties: TY sea. It was hard to get over. This nice puppy is helping out a lot tho. :D

PHSmDog: Morgan...I just SAID that

Clicker59: Morgan so true

PHMorgan: LOL Smdog

RedyreRotties: I can find out if you need to know. Do you know the bitche's name?

RedyreRotties: Rankings will be on our website.

PHMowgli: hey wiches I haven't seen you in a long time

PHSmDog: Morgan, however, I wouldn't breed a dog with say a bad rear, in Yorkies its almost impossible to get rid of and skips generations

PHMorgan: Smdog - I hear that

RedyreRotties: SO many differences in the breed. Rears are pretty easy to get in Rotties. It's fronts that are the nightmare.

seawindbt: That's great Red. I too am so glad to have finally gotten a girl. The mom was a multiple group winner and had only had two singleton boys prior to this.

PHMorgan: I wouldn't risk, say, seizures in a breeding

PHMorgan: Same in pointers, Red

PHSmDog: Morgan there are some things I just wouldn't risk it

PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"

Valkyrie: g'night...dh has decided to feed me early...hehehe

PHSmDog: Morgan oh never... Riply is a very nice bitch, but because of her seizures...there's just no way

PHSmDog: Valk take care

Wiches_nr: Hi Mowgli! Tuesday PMs are handling class night.

RedyreRotties: When I'm selecting breeding stock, I will not compromise in regard to type, temperament, or soundness. I MUST have all 3 to use a dog for breeding. I won't use anything less. I don't need to, plenty of people out there willing to do that for me, huh? *sigh*

PHMorgan: I also wouldn't breed to a dog who had NO working ability

Wiches_nr: I was at our Specialty in Texas and just got home and did not go.

PHMorgan: Got that right, REd

EClatSPs: I agree, Red.

RedyreRotties: Witches you must be exhausted just after your Naitonal. :D

PHSmDog: Red, but, if you had a bitch that say had a little bit of color off, say like a yorkie that has a bit of running gold, would that be a problem?

PHMorgan: I will sometimes compromise on type to get a clean pedigree if the dog is sound

EClatSPs: I look at it as a three-legged stool. If you take away even one leg, you fall over.

Clicker59: Smdog I hear you My sister was going to breed her yorkie which I wlll be seeing tomorrow when I go to go swimming tomorrow but somebody afdviced her to get Milly spayed & when we later disccued it I was releaved

RedyreRotties: SnDog, it's hard for me to comment because I'm not familiar with the issues in that breed.

Wiches_nr: San Antonio was hot and awesome!

PHSmDog: I've bred a softer coat to a silk even though I HATE soft coats...

PHSmDog: Red, there are no color issues in Rotts?

Clicker59: Whiches I live in Fort Worth so it is like this all the time in the summer months

PHSmDog: Or say a dog that had just a tad too much angle in the shoulder or hip

berta: gotta go ......need sleep

Clicker59: Berta Niters

EClatSPs: Night, Berta.

RedyreRotties: SmDog, not really. Occasionally some with markings that may be a little large, or a little light, or a little sootiness, but no real issues. For me in Rotties, unless it's really noticeable, it's cosmetic. While it's a consideration on the list, it's pretty far down.

PHMowgli: nite berta

Wiches_nr: Wow! You are a "tough breed" to bear all that heat!

PHSmDog: I agree 110% about type, temperament, and structure...

EClatSPs: I think what compromises one is willing to make depend mostly on the issues within the breed and the individual lines.

PHSmDog: Red, ok, that's what I was talking about...

Clicker59: I can't go anywhere because I can't handle the heat

RedyreRotties: Sm, temperament and soundness come way before any color issues for me unless they are DQ faults, and we do have those in Rotties.

Wiches_nr: Great AC in Texas!

Clicker59: I am lucky to go to my sisters to go swimming

Wiches_nr: Hot outdoors, freezing indoors!

RedyreRotties: I'ts brutal here in NC this week. 90s every day, high humidity...

Clicker59: tomorrow

PHSmDog: RED, I agree. I have out of 18 dogs 12 which are rescues that can't be rehomed because of temperament problems...

RedyreRotties: dogs stay in when it's that hot.

EClatSPs: We'r supposed to be in the triple digits this week.

PHMowgli: today was awesome weather here 78 and sunny

PHSmDog: We've had 85 + here in Western Washington... UGH

PHMorgan: IT's been disgusting here. I've only been able to train dogs after 8PM

RedyreRotties: if it does not have a decent temperament, it can't even be someone's pet. Which should be every dog's first job anyway.

EClatSPs: Where are you, Mow? And can we come visit?

seawindbt: have to run take care all

PHSmDog: Red, I wish more rott breeders had your attitudes

RedyreRotties: night, sea, TC

PHMowgli: Michigan

RedyreRotties: Sm, I love my breed. What is best for my BREED comes before any of my own personal goals always.

PHMowgli: and come on up eclat

EClatSPs: I agree, Red, but am not breeding for 'just pets' so won't sacrifice on the other things,either.

PHSmDog: Red, and I thought I was the only one anymore... (Just kidding guys) LOL

Clicker59: SmaDog I am hanging in there

Clicker59: Smdog LOL

PHMowgli: ok I want to officially Welcome PHSmDog back as the host of ShowDog chat!!!!

RedyreRotties: EClat, I agree with you. There are SOOO many of my breed still, that there is no excuse to compromise on anything at all.

EClatSPs: OK. We should be able to be there in about 8-10 hours, depending on where in MI.

Wiches_nr: We will have our next roving Specialty in Chicago in Feb.!!!

PHSmDog: Thank you...

Clicker59: SmDog WB

RedyreRotties: Welcome, SM. :D

PHSmDog: Thanks

PHMowgli: and remind everyone if you have any brags now is the time to and place to share them

EClatSPs: And in my breed, there are also way too many people breeding to produce pets.

PHSmDog: Red, Thanks I'm looking forward to it. I used to do it every week