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Transcript: Dog Breeding Chat Tuesday, July 19, 2005: When NOT to Breed PHChristy: hi golden123! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is When NOT to breed. PHChristy: thinking about all the disappointments I"ve had, of course, but also thinking about the time lag that I had, five years, of not breeding PHChristy: Hi again bert, and hi there Sams! Sarasmushu: wb berta EClatSPs: What's held you back, Christy? berta: who kicked everyone out PHMorgan: Lack of female bodies Clicker59: Berta WB EClatSPs: A C-A-T! PHMorgan: My Cat, Berta.... LOL EClatSPs: OK. PHChristy: That five year lag was a deliberate choice, because our family was involved in a legal struggle over a business we owned, and I didn't have the money on hand to deal with a problem if it arose PHChristy: at that time, I had two breedable bitches PHChristy: one became too old during those five years, and the other became, well... five years old PHChristy: I bred her at around 5 and a half, the first possible moment I had enough money to do it responsibly PHChristy: and good thing too as she required a c-section PHChristy: Hello kburgess! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is When NOT to breed. Kburgess2000: Hi PHChristy: Anyway.... PHMorgan: That's happened to a friend of mine with a lovely greyhound bitch - she was waiting to get over a Lyme's infection, and by the time that had been completely cleared, she was too old PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed" PHChristy: that delay cost me a lot in terms of mny goals PHChristy: but it was the only responsible thing I could have done EClatSPs: Yep, but sometimes life gets in the way... PHMorgan: Yes, it does. PHChristy: and, looking at the silver lining, because of that delay, I became aware of an emerging genetic problem in my lines and was able to avoid perpetuating that problem, unknowingly PHMorgan: I've skipped many an opportunity to breed a litter due to life stuff, money stuff or awaiting the result of health issues PHChristy: But I also wish I'd been able to breed her younger, and get maybe two litters from her... when I did breed her, she had only a singleton PHChristy: a male PHChristy: not breeding quality EClatSPs: Too bad... PHChristy: yes PHMorgan: I think it's a big deal to keep in mind that sometimes pups go right out the door, sometimes pups hang around - not always due to litter quality - sometimes things just happen. YOu have to be financially and "environmentally" prepared PHChristy: so, life circumstances and trying to do the ethical thing, are two reasons NOT to breed PHChristy: and EMOTIONALLY prepared, too, I think PHChristy: psychologically, whatever you want to call it PHMorgan: IT's easy for me to keep a few pups around NOW that I have the facilities, but for years it was a near thing how well I could manage a few "older" pups and for how long! PHChristy: Hi, plaid! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is When NOT to breed. plaid_nr: good topic EClatSPs: I may not breed my bitch again. PHChristy: right now, I don't want to breed because I've decided I need to cut my numbers, and also focus on my dog with osteo. PHChristy: EClat, why? I thought you were very happy with the breeding? PHMorgan: I also have a good friend in Canada who has some really top notich dogs - but she never breeds because the market for pups in Canada is just not good PHMorgan: (for her breed) EClatSPs: I haven't decided for sure yet, but am leaning towards leaving her at just this one litter. PHChristy: NOt that I think you SHOULD.... I tend to think we should breed on from our bitch's best daughther sooner than breed our bitch a second time PHChristy: I was just curious PHChristy: Morgan, what's her breed? EClatSPs: I am totally thrilled with the breeding, but my girl is nothing really special and I think I'll put myself much further ahead by waiting to breed these puppies. PHMorgan: Pointers EClatSPs: And then I won't be battling the numbers game so soon,either. PHMorgan: She just buys nice dogs from other breeders. She doesn't feel it's right to breed a litter she can't place PHChristy: I overall do think that usually we should breed on from our puppies, rather than repeating breedings, unless we didn't get what we wanted gender-wise or color-wise PHMorgan: A bitch she co-owns will actually be brought to the US to be bred so that the co-owner can place all th epups for her PHChristy: Morgan, that makes good sense. PHChristy: there is just SO little market for deerhound puppies, if the west coast had several litters in the last few years, you could easily glut the market EClatSPs: I agree, Christy, and if I do decide to breed her again, I'll go a very different direction with chosing a stud in terms of color, pedigree, etc. PHChristy: I remember once there were about 4 litters in a two year period, and that fourth litter, the breeder had a VERY difficult time PHChristy: EClat, again I'm just curious, but if you were happy with the breeding, why do you want to automatically go in a different direction? PHChristy: esp if you feel what you got improved on your bitch Sarasmushu: Hi Golden PHChristy: hi golden123! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is When NOT to breed. PHChristy: LOL, anyone there? Sarasmushu: Kinda EClatSPs: There are several reasons... For one, since this was a line breeding, I'll do an outcross to see how she produces going that direction. Also, it gives me more diversity among my dogs to hopefully still have a line going if I develop a health issue somewhere down the road. Sarasmushu: i'm just trying to read all the info PHMorgan: I think if you are looking for improvement on your bitch in more than one area, you might choose two different dogs to work on those items EClatSPs: That's part of it, too, Morgan. PHChristy: I wonder, Eclat, you might not do better to stay closer to your bitch's breeding in the beginning, rather than going out immediately? PHChristy: and yes, that's a good idea, to use different dogs PHMorgan: I began my breeding program by combining two lines which I admired for different reasons. I bred a number of bitches to the same dog and am still working on setting my type PHMorgan: It seems to be working since folks are beginning to recognize my stuff without a catalog PHChristy: I have been thinking a lot lately that, because we need to keep our numbers smaller than the old fashioned breeders did, we need to have co-breeders and partners in our breeding programs so we can have more diversity available to us PHChristy: without having to keep a kennel EClatSPs: That's exactly what I did with the litter I have here and I plan to breed these guys back *very* close, but I think an outcross would give me a big picgture idea of how Harley produces. EClatSPs: picture PHMorgan: I think a really hard thing is to decide is whether to breed our bitch a second time if you DIDN'T like the first litter Clicker59: I got sidetrack because of a stay coming in the yard at 4 in the morning & waking me & Douchie up at for in the morning sorry if I am not here & getting off the topic PHMorgan: I think it can be very hard to evaluate where the "fault" lies in the get you have produced Clicker59: [img id=em-2] EClatSPs: If I hadn't liked what was produced, I would have definately spayed this girl. PHChristy: I have a breeding partner now and we are hoping to buy two bitches, or share one bitch and breed her in two different directions PHChristy: and while we're both on the west coast, she's up in Washington and I'm in CA, so we aren't in each other's backyards PHChristy: Hey there Wiches! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is When NOT to breed. PHMorgan: It's helpful if you know what the stud has produced so you can see if it's more "him" or "her" not so much to point fingers, but to decide if going in a different direction will give you what you had wanted the first time Clicker59: Hi Wichs Wiches_nr: Hi! PHChristy: this enables us to keep more dogs and hopefully prevent what happened to me from happening again Clicker59: Whiched PHChristy: I can start over once, but I really cant' face it again after this! Clicker59: Christie which is? PHChristy: having to start over PHMorgan: That's a good plan, Christy berta: I don't necessarily think that a bitch having a litter that's not what you had hoped is a reason to not breed her again depending on how much research went into the choice in the first place. PHMorgan: Berta - I agree - it's hard to know what the right choice is. EClatSPs: With my situation, it would have been. Clicker59: Christie what happened sorry that I am behind PHMorgan: If Solo's second litter had been her first, I might not have DONE the first breeding..... I bred her to two related dogs, one of whom produced a great litter, the other was mediocre - and the studs were father & son berta: I also like to see the produce old enough to judge if it does meet my approval prior to deciding whether to do another breeding with that bitch or say YAH !!! EClatSPs: I had already decided that well before doing the breeding which had been planned since she was just over a year old (so for nearly two years...). PHMorgan: I agree, Berta PHMorgan: I try to have two years between litters on a bitch for that reason Clicker59: Morgan good berta: I also am not a fan of repeat breedings......... what purpose does that serve?
PHChristy: it's not just our BITCHES we need to start younger, I think WE need to start younger too
PHChristy: berta, only if you didn't get the genders you wanted
PHChristy: or possibly in some breeds, the color or some other trait like that
PHChristy: esp in toy breeds where you get so few pups in a litter
PHChristy: I can see it there
EClatSPs:
PHChristy: ROFL Eclat
PHChristy: I hear THAT!
berta: LOL of course with a litter like Kyrie had of very comparable boys I would have been tempted to do another breeding to get the girl I was after
PHMorgan: They do keep us busy
Wiches_nr: Do you guys do ever use a maiden bitch for a fresh chilled breeding?
EClatSPs: I keep saying that Harley could have easily handled doing back to back litters, but I'm the one who needed a bread.
EClatSPs: break.
PHMorgan: I hear that, Eclat
PHMorgan: I always need a break and the other adults need to get some of that quality time I've been spending on MOmdog and the pups
PHChristy: Wiches, I never have
PHMorgan: brb - daughter sneaked out without feeding my guys and they are revolting
EClatSPs: But I wouldn't trade it for the world...
Wiches_nr: I have not either.
Clicker59: OK Christie
PHChristy: I WOULD use a fresh chilled on a maiden bitch, I just never have
PHChristy: you're risking not knowing for sure that she can produce pups
Sarasmushu: I like this I'm learning even though I don't plan on breeding ever
Wiches_nr: But then I don't do the dream breeding because I am using a more "local" stud.
PHChristy: but if she's young and you can afford the money and to risk the semen, I say go for it
EClatSPs: I know someone who did and had a very large litter result. She did fresh frozen shipped in to Oklahoma from Australia for this same bitch's second litter and again had a very nice sized litter.
Clicker59: You wouldn't believe what Honey's Litter did by the time they were 6 weeks old I was phyiscally worn out
PHChristy: I took Rosie all the way to Eastern Canada from California to breed her, if I had it to do over again I'd have done an AI and kept her home
EClatSPs: What breed, Clicker?
PHChristy: but I was obsessed with natural breedings
PHChristy: SmDog!
Sarasmushu: Hi Smdog
PHSmDog: Sorry I'm late... work ran over, and over and over and... LOL
PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "When Not to Breed"
Clicker59: A mixt & Clat it wsas a Opps
PHSmDog: Hey Everyone
Clicker59: Hi Smdog
PHChristy: I still am obsessed with natural breedings, but I think I've mellowed a bit as I've gotten older. If the stud is 4000 miles away, I'll compromise.
EClatSPs: Hey, SmDog, mine did, too!
PHSmDog: How is everyone this evening
PHSmDog: Christy... I figure if they can't get it done naturally there may be something wrong...
Clicker59: I wasn't planning to breeding her when the Opps took place but that was 17 or 18 years agl
EClatSPs: That's teh way I look at it, too, SmDog.
PHSmDog: EClat, I don't fool with Mother Nature too much
Wiches_nr: I want to use a dog in Ca, but had a maiden bitch so bred her to a dog in PA for her first time.
EClatSPs: That happened with a dog I had as a kid, too, Clicker.
Clicker59: LOL
PHMorgan: I think it's hard to give up those natural breedings on a maiden bitch - I think it's better for them
PHMorgan: But a second breeding, any which way you can!
PHChristy: SmDog I do also, however, I was just saying that I wouldn't rule out an AI if it saved my bitch from having to travel 4000 miles
Clicker59: That has happend to me twice with female cocker too way back in 1874 too LOL
EClatSPs: That's one of the greatest things about technology.
Clicker59: 1974 I mean
PHSmDog: Morgan, as you all may remember, it took Bailey and Raisin (BOTH new at this) Five days to figure it out...but they got it done
PHMorgan: I just had to have a little chat with one of my co-owners
Clicker59: Hi Jo
PHMorgan: She was asked to lease Duncan's sister to be bred to a stud dog in CA
PHMorgan: (not taht far from her)
PHMorgan: Very scary pedigree
PHMorgan: I remember, Smdog
Sarasmushu: ok well I"m gonna scoot For the moment this isn't the place for me since I dont' care for breeding
PHChristy: Hi, jo890! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "When NOT to Breed"
Sarasmushu: Night all
PHChristy: night Sara!
PHChristy: see you later I hope!
Clicker59: OK Sara
PHMorgan: I told her to blame it on me and say I already had 2 breedings planned for her... LOL
PHMorgan: Night, Sara - come again
PHChristy: LOL MOrgan
PHSmDog: Christy... well... I'm kind of paranoid about AI unless the vet does them. Know ofsomeone who had a uterus rupted due to an AI
Clicker59: Christie Sara will be back trust me
PHMorgan: Not that hard to do with Toys
Wiches_nr: I have a vet tech who does them.
PHSmDog: Morgan no kidding... it was sad...she was a nice bitch
PHChristy: SmDog, I wouldn't even dream of having anyone other than a repro specialist do it!
Clicker59: [img id=em-5]
PHSmDog: Christy, I know that...
PHMorgan: Me either
PHMorgan: Even on a large dog
Clicker59: Do what
PHChristy: Clicker, aritifical insemination
Clicker59: Christie thanks
PHSmDog: THis was an experienced breeder who'd been doing it for years
EClatSPs: Most breeders I know regularly do their own.
PHSmDog: But it only takes one
PHChristy: If I was going to all that trouble, I'd probably do a transcervical insemination anyway
EClatSPs: These are with miniature and standard poodles...don't know if that makes any difference.
Wiches_nr: My vet tech is certified and has been a tech for years at a specialty practice.
PHSmDog: Ah heck, I just let the dog do it then stand the girl on her head...LOL
PHChristy: Wiches, well that's to me the same. You are doing it at the vet, not doing it in the family room
PHChristy: ROFL SmDog
berta: That's what I finally did with Kyrie as the dog I chose didn't get it together and her age was creeping up
PHChristy: my rule about AI is, never to get a breeding from dogs who can't or won't breed naturally
PHMorgan: I've tried that with pointers - does'nt work
PHMorgan: LOL
PHChristy: but sometimes circumstances are what they are, and for that I might do it
PHSmDog: Christy...I'm not kidding
PHChristy: but if the stud dog is far away, or dead or extremely old, or one of the two has some kind of injury... I'd do it
PHChristy: Hello al, Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "When NOT to Breed"
EClatSPs: BRB. Need to go turn the AC down before it freezes up again. Forgot to do it...
berta: I did NOT use THAT stud
PHChristy: I know one breeder who did it because her bitch had a back injury. This bitch had had a naturally bred litter before, though, so she knew she could and would breed naturally
PHSmDog: OH when not to breed... WOW now that's a wide open topic
PHMorgan: That's fair enough, altho I'm not sure I would breed a bitch with a back injury and then ask her to carry a litter
PHChristy: SmDog, yes, we discussed mostly life circumstances so far....
PHMorgan: Stud dog, surely, but the bitch?
PHChristy: Morgan, I have to agree.
berta: Kyrie would stand there and stand there and he'd get on and get off until she got really pissed at him
PHChristy: It wouldn't ahve been my choice.
PHChristy: LOL berta
PHMorgan: It's not like dogs can do bedrest
PHMorgan: LOL
PHSmDog: How about this... I posted on the Yorkie Message Boards a REALLY good answer to this very question....
berta: Kyrie does get pissed at the boys quite easily though
PHSmDog: Course that wasn't a show/breeder either
PHChristy: I'll go look
PHMorgan: I have also put off breeding a litter if I knew of quite a few litters planned in my breed for a given period of time
PHSmDog: Hey VAL
PHMorgan: There are only so many homes out there
PHChristy: Hi there Val! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "When NOT to Breed"
berta: I wasn't talking abut you honest Kyrie
Valkyrie: Hiya
PHMorgan: And I've chosen not to breed a litter when I knew pups might arrive and be growing up in December & January - too cold for them to go outdoors
EClatSPs: I'm back.
berta: Oh my pups LOVE to go out in the snow
PHChristy: I love that post, SmDog
jo890_nr: I agree no january litters way too cold
PHSmDog: Morgan I've chosen not to breed lately because I just haven't had the energy I KNOW it takes to get them here, healthy and happy
PHSmDog: Christy... Thanks. It was one of my better ones
PHChristy: Here it is if anyone would like to read it: http://forums.doghobbyist.com/view.php?id=93180,93222
PHSmDog: And the truth
PHChristy: <---lives in California LOL
PHChristy: I don't mind them being born in the late winter
PHChristy: then they can go out in the spring
berta: everytime I try to go somewhere and look at something it takes me a week to get back
PHSmDog: Heck I'm in Washington and I don't mind December/January/February litters
Clicker59: What did I miss since I went to get Douchie in & My Piano Teacher showed up
Wiches_nr: I have bred my five year old bitch twice this year with bad results--resorbed 50 day old pups and a stillborn the second time. I had her recently spayed. I now will breed only younger bitches.
PHChristy: Wiches, yes, I've made that vow too
PHSmDog: So, those of you who have show/stud dogs, what do you say to someone who say comes to you with a different breed wanting to breed to your stud dog?
Clicker59: Honey's Litter were born on Jan.2,1978
PHChristy: a different BREED?
Wiches_nr: Too heartwrenching...
jo890_nr: no
berta: NO !! but nicely
PHChristy: well, if they are breeding lurchers or some kind of working hunting hound, or sled dogs (it has happened several times) I turn them down without being too mean
PHSmDog: Yep... case in point... someone came to me with a Shih Tzu wanting to breed to one of my yorkie males because a friend had done it and the pups were SOOOOO cute.
PHChristy: I dont' necessarily disapprove of those uses of a dog, just not MY dogs
EClatSPs: There are a couple of people in my breed (not breeders themselves) who are bound and determined that no dog or bitch should be bred before five years of age.
Clicker59: Christie I don't blame you
PHChristy: however, if someone wanted it just for pets or to make money I'd skewer them
PHChristy: EClat, yes, I hear that a lot.
PHSmDog: And NO, I was NOT NICE
PHChristy: I suppose in the smaller, longer lived breeds it's not the end of the world, but I think that 2-3 years is better
berta: alot of various sled dog and weight pull competitors have inquired
Valkyrie: There's a woman a few cities over that breeds her boxer and lab regularly.
berta: ugh
PHChristy: I have had sled dog folks want to use my deerhounds. They sometimes use greyhounds but they seem to think with the deerhounds they can get the speed and still have some coat
PHChristy: whatever, but not MY dogs
Wiches_nr: I prefer not to randomly breed.
PHMorgan: I haev had at least 3 different sled dog folks contact me to breed to my dogs or buy one for breeding
PHSmDog: Same here...NOT one my kids
PHMorgan: They want the heart, stamina and run
PHChristy: Wiches, well, these are not random breedings. They are purpose-bred dogs for performance.
PHMorgan: I just say no thanks
berta: the sled people want a mellower temperment and not the coat. the weightpullers want Kyrie & Tally's drive
Clicker59: I had that problem where somebody wanted to use Toby to breed his female Cocker & I discussed it with my mother sicne I was real leary about it & I daid No
PHChristy: but it's just not the life I want for my dogs
PHChristy: the end
PHMorgan: I think my dogs are not suited anyhow, and I do feel it's not the right way to solve the sled-dog issue - they should be breeding fitter examples of sled-dog breeds
PHSmDog: In fact... I don't stud my dogs out to ANYONE outside of myself and my mentor
Wiches_nr: Oh, would the offspring be bred as well?
Clicker59: Said no I mean
PHChristy: well, Morgan... I don't know.
PHChristy: they want the best sled dogs possible, what is the virtue of staying within one breed?
PHMorgan: Well, I would guess that dogs bred to pull sleds for hundreds of years would be the best suited dogs, but apparently not?
PHChristy: and nearly every modern breed on earth added in a bit of greyhound to get speed and.or shapeliness at some point
EClatSPs: That's much the same approach as breeding performance horses, Christy.
berta: You don't kno;w and you don't know if they don't get what they want what will be done either as they are looking for a better performance not a pet
PHChristy: Morgan, sometimes they get too slow
PHSmDog: Heck Christy... we ALL know that Yorkies make the best sled dogs...LOL
PHMorgan: Good point, Berta
PHChristy: ROFL SmDog
PHChristy: and they need speed
PHMorgan: Well, sometimes pointers don't do their job, but we don't then go use spaniels
EClatSPs: I think that's different, IMHO...
PHChristy: pointers are a breed, sled dogs are a type of dog
PHMorgan: I think you should work within your breed to improve it, not go running off to the most convenient other breed
PHChristy: defined by function, not pedigree
berta: Actually the Samoyeds primary function was to herd
PHChristy: Morgan, but they AREN'T a breed
PHMorgan: Well, there are breeds designed for sledding
PHChristy: sled dogs are all differentbreeds, and mutts
PHMorgan: Pointers aren't
EClatSPs: And they don't want to or claim to be a breed.
PHChristy: a team of standard poodles ran the Iditarod
Clicker59: Somebody wanted to use Toby to breed his Female cocker & I said No
PHChristy: good for you Clicker
PHMorgan: OK I see your point - I just don't agree with their methods
PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"
PHChristy: Hi heartcross!
Wiches_nr: These are real ethical questions...
EClatSPs: Yeah, but that was a really, really bad situation. From everything I've heard Sutter is a crazy man.
Clicker59: Chistie isn't that like me?
heartcross: hi
EClatSPs: What breed is Toby, Clicker?
berta: the alaskan husky is alot like the border collies whatever does the job best gets bred.
PHSmDog: I think of the BIG things to remember in when not to breed is that if you have to ask what do do after you've bred, then maybe you shouldn't have done it in the first place
diddybopper: hi everyone.
PHChristy: I don't really disagree with you, Morgan, just distinquishing between the issue SmDog brought up, of making poo dog crosses for pets, and performance-based breeding programs
PHMorgan: If over time they had combined various breeds to produce a good line of "sled dogs" then I could admire their work. But they don't seem to have any clear breeding program
diddybopper: dang it, wrong handle. BRB
PHChristy: Hi there seawind and diddybopper!
Clicker59: A male Cocker that is no longer with me Eclat
seawindbt: hi
PHMorgan: I see what you mean, Christy - I was being dense for a moment there
Clicker59: Hi Sea
RedyreRotties: ahhh, much better. :D
PHChristy: Hi Redrye!
PHChristy: LOL
PHSmDog: Morgan...YOU? Naw... LOL
Clicker59: Morgan LOL
PHMorgan: These breeders who've contacted me seem to have Red Dog who is strong, and want to choose the fastest dog they can get to fix his faults
RedyreRotties: I have a little brag. :D
PHMorgan: Then from there who knows where they will go
PHMorgan: Go, Red!
PHChristy: Redrye, what is it?
PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"
berta: Oh but they do Morgan....... there are lines of Alaskan just as there are in Sammies or Pointers
RedyreRotties: I won Penny's first single last weekend in Huntington. BOS too. :D
PHMorgan: Some do but many do not
PHMorgan: Excellent, Red! Wahoo
Clicker59: Morgan so how did you handle it the way I would
berta: true devotees of the "breed" can recognize a certain line
PHSmDog: Redyre... CONGRATS!
PHMorgan: Pretty much, Clicker
RedyreRotties: tyvm everyone. :D
PHChristy: Red, CONGRALTATIONS! That's fantastic!
RedyreRotties: It was her last weekend out in the puppy class.
Clicker59: Red cool
berta: It's the people who are trying to build a bette mousetrap that are still crossing breed
EClatSPs: Congrats, Red!
PHChristy: Everyone, I have a terrible headache and Morgan said it's ok if I duck out a little early... I'll see you all next week!
PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"
RedyreRotties: feel better christy
Clicker59: Hi Fireball
EClatSPs: Feel better, Christy.
PHMorgan: WB Jo
RedyreRotties: Answer: Most of the time. LOL
fireball: hi
PHMorgan: So what are some other reasons NOT to breed?
PHMorgan: Hiya, MOW!
PHSmDog: Hey MOW
seawindbt: what do you think of breeding a dog that is very nice but has a mismark on his butt (Its not a DQ, just a fault in our breed). I know of one person who bred a bitch with it and got one mismarked pup from three litters.
PHMowgli: stupid phone kept ringing
EClatSPs: I think it would depend on a lot of details, sea.
RedyreRotties: If it's not a DQ and the rest of the dog is excellent, and if the dog was the best one for mine, I'd use it in a second.
berta: cause if you're like Mow you have a really hard tme of it before you get that "perfect" litter
Clicker59: Mow I hope it isn't a emegercy
Clicker59: Hi Heart
berta: I would do it seawind
Clicker59: Hi Fasdog
PHMorgan: If a dog produces a fault, that is not necessarily a reason to NEVER use that dog. Particularly if he also produces some very useful attributes
seawindbt: thanks :-)
RedyreRotties: I have had 2 litters. One was a health/temperament NIGHTMARE, and the other was a ER section with no surviving puppies.
FasdogKira: Hi!
seawindbt: oh, NO
PHMorgan: I've used some very PLAIN headed dogs to get temperament or hunting ability
PHMorgan: Theere are always compromises
jo890_nr: just a cosmetic flaw would be no problem
PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"
PHMowgli: hey Fas
PHSmDog: Morgan it depends on the fault. Its like patella problems in yorkies...
PHSmDog: You don't throw the baby out with the bath water
PHMorgan: Red -then you are due for a speciality winner ! LOL
seawindbt: how awful. I've had three litter, first two were singletons. Most recent one was four and we lost one tiny one. Got three lovely pups right now
PHMowgli: Berta it takes me forever just to get a litter let alone perfect LOL
Clicker59: Why do you say that about useful attributes Morgan
RedyreRotties: Or elbows in Rottweilers. Up to 70% of our population is affected. We simply cannot choose to only use normal elbow dogs as much as we might like to because we would be losing too much.
berta: very true but a mismark that's not even DQ I would risk all else being excellent
seawindbt: I'm sorry Red
EClatSPs: If it were something like the parti gene in poodles which is a simple recessive, I probably wouldn't use it, but do know people who do.
PHMorgan: If you can get something outstanding in a litter, but risk a fault in SOME pups, it can be worth that risk
PHSmDog: EClat, is that hard to get away from?
PHMorgan: YOu cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater
EClatSPs: Yes, very hard to get away from once it's in your lines.
RedyreRotties: TY sea. It was hard to get over. This nice puppy is helping out a lot tho. :D
PHSmDog: Morgan...I just SAID that
Clicker59: Morgan so true
PHMorgan: LOL Smdog
RedyreRotties: I can find out if you need to know. Do you know the bitche's name?
RedyreRotties: Rankings will be on our website.
PHMowgli: hey wiches I haven't seen you in a long time
PHSmDog: Morgan, however, I wouldn't breed a dog with say a bad rear, in Yorkies its almost impossible to get rid of and skips generations
PHMorgan: Smdog - I hear that
RedyreRotties: SO many differences in the breed. Rears are pretty easy to get in Rotties. It's fronts that are the nightmare.
seawindbt: That's great Red. I too am so glad to have finally gotten a girl. The mom was a multiple group winner and had only had two singleton boys prior to this.
PHMorgan: I wouldn't risk, say, seizures in a breeding
PHMorgan: Same in pointers, Red
PHSmDog: Morgan there are some things I just wouldn't risk it
PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder's Chat - Tonight's topic is "When not to Breed"
Valkyrie: g'night...dh has decided to feed me early...hehehe
PHSmDog: Morgan oh never... Riply is a very nice bitch, but because of her seizures...there's just no way
PHSmDog: Valk take care
Wiches_nr: Hi Mowgli! Tuesday PMs are handling class night.
RedyreRotties: When I'm selecting breeding stock, I will not compromise in regard to type, temperament, or soundness. I MUST have all 3 to use a dog for breeding. I won't use anything less. I don't need to, plenty of people out there willing to do that for me, huh? *sigh*
PHMorgan: I also wouldn't breed to a dog who had NO working ability
Wiches_nr: I was at our Specialty in Texas and just got home and did not go.
PHMorgan: Got that right, REd
EClatSPs: I agree, Red.
RedyreRotties: Witches you must be exhausted just after your Naitonal. :D
PHSmDog: Red, but, if you had a bitch that say had a little bit of color off, say like a yorkie that has a bit of running gold, would that be a problem?
PHMorgan: I will sometimes compromise on type to get a clean pedigree if the dog is sound
EClatSPs: I look at it as a three-legged stool. If you take away even one leg, you fall over.
Clicker59: Smdog I hear you My sister was going to breed her yorkie which I wlll be seeing tomorrow when I go to go swimming tomorrow but somebody afdviced her to get Milly spayed & when we later disccued it I was releaved
RedyreRotties: SnDog, it's hard for me to comment because I'm not familiar with the issues in that breed.
Wiches_nr: San Antonio was hot and awesome!
PHSmDog: I've bred a softer coat to a silk even though I HATE soft coats...
PHSmDog: Red, there are no color issues in Rotts?
Clicker59: Whiches I live in Fort Worth so it is like this all the time in the summer months
PHSmDog: Or say a dog that had just a tad too much angle in the shoulder or hip
berta: gotta go ......need sleep
Clicker59: Berta Niters
EClatSPs: Night, Berta.
RedyreRotties: SmDog, not really. Occasionally some with markings that may be a little large, or a little light, or a little sootiness, but no real issues. For me in Rotties, unless it's really noticeable, it's cosmetic. While it's a consideration on the list, it's pretty far down.
PHMowgli: nite berta
Wiches_nr: Wow! You are a "tough breed" to bear all that heat!
PHSmDog: I agree 110% about type, temperament, and structure...
EClatSPs: I think what compromises one is willing to make depend mostly on the issues within the breed and the individual lines.
PHSmDog: Red, ok, that's what I was talking about...
Clicker59: I can't go anywhere because I can't handle the heat
RedyreRotties: Sm, temperament and soundness come way before any color issues for me unless they are DQ faults, and we do have those in Rotties.
Wiches_nr: Great AC in Texas!
Clicker59: I am lucky to go to my sisters to go swimming
Wiches_nr: Hot outdoors, freezing indoors!
RedyreRotties: I'ts brutal here in NC this week. 90s every day, high humidity...
Clicker59: tomorrow
PHSmDog: RED, I agree. I have out of 18 dogs 12 which are rescues that can't be rehomed because of temperament problems...
RedyreRotties: dogs stay in when it's that hot.
EClatSPs: We'r supposed to be in the triple digits this week.
PHMowgli: today was awesome weather here 78 and sunny
PHSmDog: We've had 85 + here in Western Washington... UGH
PHMorgan: IT's been disgusting here. I've only been able to train dogs after 8PM
RedyreRotties: if it does not have a decent temperament, it can't even be someone's pet. Which should be every dog's first job anyway.
EClatSPs: Where are you, Mow? And can we come visit?
seawindbt: have to run take care all
PHSmDog: Red, I wish more rott breeders had your attitudes
RedyreRotties: night, sea, TC
PHMowgli: Michigan
RedyreRotties: Sm, I love my breed. What is best for my BREED comes before any of my own personal goals always.
PHMowgli: and come on up eclat
EClatSPs: I agree, Red, but am not breeding for 'just pets' so won't sacrifice on the other things,either.
PHSmDog: Red, and I thought I was the only one anymore... (Just kidding guys) LOL
Clicker59: SmaDog I am hanging in there
Clicker59: Smdog LOL
PHMowgli: ok I want to officially Welcome PHSmDog back as the host of ShowDog chat!!!!
RedyreRotties: EClat, I agree with you. There are SOOO many of my breed still, that there is no excuse to compromise on anything at all.
EClatSPs: OK. We should be able to be there in about 8-10 hours, depending on where in MI.
Wiches_nr: We will have our next roving Specialty in Chicago in Feb.!!!
PHSmDog: Thank you...
Clicker59: SmDog WB
RedyreRotties: Welcome, SM. :D
PHSmDog: Thanks
PHMowgli: and remind everyone if you have any brags now is the time to and place to share them
EClatSPs: And in my breed, there are also way too many people breeding to produce pets.
PHSmDog: Red, Thanks I'm looking forward to it. I used to do it every week
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