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PHMowgli: Welcome to Dog Breeders Chat! Tonight's topic is "When Puppies Come Back"

PHMorgan: I now have seven Z puppies

PHMorgan: Hiya, Yarnell!

PHFlea: Well I'm heading out...have a nice chat everyone!!

PHMorgan: WHAZNEW??

PHMorgan: Night, Flea

PHMowgli: oh geez I missed the Z puppies

yarnell_nr: hi everyone

PHMowgli: Well lets see last tuesday I got a puppy back so I know all about tonights topic LOL

yarnell_nr: why did you get the pup back

PHMowgli: she was not eating well at new home

PHMowgli: she just layed behind couch and slept 99% of time

PHMorgan: How is she now that she's home?

PHMorgan: By the way, Welcome to Breeder Chat

PHMorgan: Topic is: When puppies come BACK HOME

yarnell_nr: how is she doing now

PHMowgli: the closer they got to home the more excited and happy she became and as soon as she got her sister back she is perfectly fine

PHMorgan: How did the people seem?

yarnell_nr: how long did they have her

PHMowgli: eats like a little piggy

PHMowgli: Welcome to Dog Breeders Chat! Tonight's topic is "When Puppies Come Back"

PHMorgan: How old was she when you placed her?

PHMowgli: 3 weeks yarnell

PHMorgan: How long had they had her?

PHMowgli: 6 mths

PHMorgan: Ah

PHMorgan: Well then she KNEW where she wanted to be

PHMorgan: Hiya, Polo

PHMowgli: she was 6mth old and they had her for 3 weeks LOL

PoLow_nr: howdy!!

PHMowgli: yep so she is back being a spoiled brat

PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder Chat! Topic tonight is "When Puppies COME BACK"

yarnell_nr: you are better off that she is now back with you

PHMorgan: So - did you suggest another pup for these folks?

PHMorgan: Or did you just refund their money and send them on their way?

PHMowgli: yes Morgan they are actually going to get one of my puppies I will be having in june or july

PHMowgli: I offered a refund or a replacement

PHMowgli: obviously they chose a replacement from next litter

yarnell_nr: do you think it would have been better if the pup was let go at 8 weeks

PHMowgli: yarnell none of my pups go at 8 weeks 10-12 normally

PHMowgli: but I grew her out and she was too small

PHMowgli: and yes I am certain if they had gotten a younger pup who was not accustomed to living here she would have been fine with them

PHMorgan: Hi, POm

PHMorgan: Welcome to Breeder Chat! Topic tonight is "When Puppies COME BACK"

yarnell_nr: hi pom

PHMorgan: So, MOw - did you feel the folks did anything WRONG that made the puppy unhappy, or just that she'd been happy at your place for too long? What will you do with her now?

PHMowgli: she is now going to be my pet

PHMowgli: and they actually did everything right

PHMowgli: they worked with her, they of course took to vet to ensure health of her

yarnell_nr: that is a sign of a great breeder. I would do the same

PHMowgli: they kept in constant contact with me

PHMowgli: but Anastasia just wanted to be home with her little sister so I now have 2 more pets instead of just 1 LOL

PHMowgli: Welcome to Dog Breeders Chat! Tonight's topic is "When Puppies Come Back"

PHMorgan: Well, that's the right place for her, then.

anne1234_nr: When a puppy doesn't work out, do you give the owners a refund?

PHMowgli: I was very pleased with the new owners though as they agreed that what ever ws best for her was the way to go

PHMowgli: anne I offer a refund always

PHMorgan: I will give a refund anytime within about 2 months after they get the puppy, and ANY TIME for health reasons

PHMowgli: however often people prefer to just wait for a new puppy as these owners did

PHMorgan: If they just decide they don't want the dog, I'm not necessarily going to give them a refund on a dog that is, say 8 months old and out of control because they didn't train it. HOWEVER< i will refund the money if that is the only way to get the dog back.

PHMowgli: the only time I will not refund money is if someone hurts a puppy ie broken leg or something and then wants to bring it back for refund cause it is damaged

PHMowgli: on those cases I get the dog and refuse a refund due to breech of contract

PHMorgan: How many of you have gotten a puppy back? What were the reasons (BESIDES YOU, Mow)

yarnell_nr: i will give a refund within three months and then refund if there is anything geneticly (sp) wrong so far i have been lucky and all my pups are still wiwith their owners

PHMowgli: I got 2 pups back total 1 last week and 1 a few yrs ago

travlinpom_nr: I have only had show puppies returned, never pets

yarnell_nr: in my contract i have it stated that if they cannot keep the pup it must be returned to me weather it is 3 months old or ten years old

PHMowgli: mine too yarnell

PHMorgan: I've only had one returned, and that was temporarily while owners were having a major life crisis. Dog was being a butthead and they could not give him what he needed at that time.... He's doing better now back at home, but still having his moments. He was 100% fine here once eh found out he was NOT, in fact, King of the Universe. They still have work to do, but they WANT it to work, so I suspect it will.

travlinpom_nr: same here

PHMorgan: My contact says as much, too

yarnell_nr: i tell them there is to be no shelter or rescue for my dogs

PHMorgan: Me too

PHMorgan: I would imagine a Saint Bernard would be as doomed as a pointer in a shelter. NObody wants to adopt pointers

PHMowgli: not really much of a problem with shelties in shelters but I don't want my babies in a shelter

yarnell_nr: it is the byb saints that are found in shelters most of the time we do have a rescue here in ga

PHMorgan: Well, I suspect none of us does

PHMorgan: So, Pom what are the rreasons you've gotten back your show prospects?

PHMowgli: avalon have you ever gotten a pup back?

travlinpom_nr: Two came back due to a divorce . . . . one boy came back when he pulled up a nut at 10 months old . . . and the one that was shipped back and was my reason for never shipping again . . . she didnt know she would have that much sable!!!!

PHMowgli: LOL I like the color reason

PHMorgan: OMG too much sable

PHMorgan: Show homes are just awful sometimes

PHMorgan: Avalon - you made it = goody

travlinpom_nr: AND she had seen at least a dozen pictures of the bitch before she bought her

travlinpom_nr: I no longer ship for any reason

PHMowgli: trav that is why I do not ship too many horror stories from other breeders

PHMorgan: I don't mind shipping, but I make sure they have 1) seen a lot of photos, and 2) aren't freaks about color/markings

travlinpom_nr: If they truly want one of my poms, they will haul their butts to my house to see them

PHMorgan: That's a good point, Pom

PHMorgan: Altho, I will say, 2 of my nicest homes are folks who had their pups shipped

PHMowgli: morgan did they ever see the pups in person?

PHMorgan: So - how do you handle the returned pups? Do you try to place them immediately? Do you do any training? Do you keep them?

PHMorgan: Mow - no - they never did

PHMorgan: Not until they arrived

PHMowgli: Morgan wouldn't those questions depend on the dog and the reason you got back?

PHMorgan: I would probably not place any pup returned to me for at least 3 months (even if someone appeared before then!)

PHMorgan: Sure - I'm imagining folks can explain.... LOL

PHMorgan: I'd want to fully evaluate their temperament and make sure they had all basics covered (especially if they are more than 12 weeks)

PHMorgan: If they are over 3 months, they need to be crate-trained, housebroken, lead broken and have house manners down pretty well before they go ANYWHERE

PHMorgan: I feel that otherwise "older pup" placements don't work too well

PHMowgli: well both of the dogs I got back are here now for life I think if they were placed and came back for a valid reason and were over 6 mths when I get back they get to stay for life

PHMorgan: (this based on rescue)

PHMorgan: So - what happens if you get a puppy back and it has some genetic defect you didn't know about? Do you call up the other puppy folks to give them a heads up?

PHMowgli: of course and offer a refund and take all pups backs or I have also offered to let them keep pups and get a free replacement whenever they lose their dog

PHMorgan: What defect wasthis, Mow?

PHMowgli: whether it is 1 mths from now or 20 yrs from now provided I am still alive

PHMorgan: Anyone ever gotten a dog back for "failure to work" in performance venues?

PHMowgli: well I had a litter that I found out the stud I used had dermamysititus

PHMorgan: Aha - gotcha

PHMowgli: which is hereditary

PHMorgan: A friend had a litter THEN found out the sire had PRA

yarnell_nr: goodnight ladies I am just to tired tonight enjoyed the chat

PHMorgan: He had tested neg until right before the pups were due to go home - he was retested for another breeding

PHMorgan: Night, yarn

PHMowgli: I was fortunate none of the pups have ever shown a sign of the disease and they are all over 8 now

PHMorgan: HOORAY

PHMowgli: night yarn

Sissa_nr: I have a question unrelated to the topic. I just made my first attempt at breeding in January and I obviously blew it because my bitch is without pups. Can you tell me when you will be discussing this topic again.

ramsey_nr: I hope some can help me. My boxer I think is have puppy tonite and I don't know what to do! Help

PHMorgan: Sissa - That topic probably won't be coming up again for a while, but since Mow & I have talked this topic out pretty well, why don't you tell us EXACTLY what happened and let's see if we can help

PHMorgan: Ramsey - what is the dog doing RIGHT NOW?

PHMorgan: What has her temperature been?

PHMowgli: Sissa we actually try to space topics so they do not come up very often there is so much to discuss involved in breeding

PHMorgan: have you got a whelping box or area set up?

ramsey_nr: She is seem to be hot and she is in a very large box outside.

AvalonBorzoi: hey it did load

PHMorgan: Ramsey - is she digging around inteh box?

AvalonBorzoi: My contract specifies I will always take a dog back at any time

PHMorgan: Sissa is now twins

AvalonBorzoi: it also specifies they must sign the dog back over to me and return its papers if they no longer want it or are returning it for some reason

sissa_nr: Sorry I was bumped out. I believe she breed to late (14 days in) I never seperated the two.

PHMorgan: Sissa - did you do any testing befor ebreeding? Vaginal smears? Progesterone? LH testing?

ramsey_nr: PHMorgan: Yes

AvalonBorzoi: I do not do refunds and that is also in the contract, however they can get another puppy and do not have to return the one they have if they don't want to

AvalonBorzoi: only have to provide proof of spay or neuter

sissa_nr: I will next time

PHMorgan: Ramsey - you need to stay with her - this part (panting, digging) will go on for some time. Then she will begin pushing

PHMowgli: Morgan you did not have to kick me out all you had to do was say be quiet LOL

PHMorgan: If she is PUSHING for more than 2 hours without producing a puppy - you need to call your vet and get his advice on what to do next

PHMorgan: Mow - it wasn't me! LOL

PHMorgan: Avalon - that is also how I work things - the spay/neuter is important

PHMorgan: hav eyou ever had to use that clause?

sissa_nr: The vet says since this was her first breeding she may not have wanted the stud because she lives with him. Has anyone heard of this

PHMorgan: Sissa=that can happen, yes

ramsey_nr: PHMorgan: I am very upset becuase this is my 1st litter.

PHMorgan: But I would definitely do some kind of testing next time to know EXACTLY when it's time to breed. 14 days isn't all taht late for MY bitches

PHMorgan: Ramsey - there is always next time. It is sooo disappointing, but you can try again

AvalonBorzoi: I have not had to use the clause

PHMorgan: You might also get the stud tested to make sure his sperm is good. Did you witness actual breedings?

PHMorgan: Avalon -taht's good

AvalonBorzoi: I have had a 7 year old bitch returned

PHMorgan: Welcome, Spider boy

PHMowgli: I have bred on day 17 before and had puppies but of course this was done with progesterone testing

sissa_nr: What should I do next time. Seperate them until test show she is ready.

PHMowgli: Welcome to Dog Breeders Chat! Tonight's topic is "When Puppies Come Back"

AvalonBorzoi: when her owner's circumstances changed

PHMorgan: Avalon -wow what for????

AvalonBorzoi: she is here now and will be 11 in June

ArachnoPhil_nr: evenin folks

PHMorgan: What became of that dog?

PHMorgan: Aw - that's great for her

ArachnoPhil_nr: and that would be more like spider man :)

ArachnoPhil_nr: been many moons since I was a boy

PHMorgan: Yeah, sure

AvalonBorzoi: yes she is the queen mother so to speak although she never had a litter

l2wf: what r we chatting about

PHMorgan: Well, spider gramps, welcome

PHMorgan: Ramsey - do you have anyone nearby who can help you out?

ArachnoPhil_nr: not quite gramps yet either but 34 is getting on up there I suppose

ArachnoPhil_nr: lol

PHMorgan: You will want to make sure the sac is removed from each puppy as it is born. Try to keep track of the placentas as the pups are born (the nasty purple & green blob that comes out after) so you know they are all delivered.

PHMorgan: Any placentas she doesn't deliver might be a problem later

ArachnoPhil_nr: had a dog question pop up figured I'd see if anyone here knew about it

PHMorgan: It is NOT, PHil, take MY word for it

PHMorgan: Go for it, Phil

ArachnoPhil_nr: neosporin is fine for puncture wopunds isnt it?

PHMorgan: Our PUPPY BACK CHAT is now morphing into breeding questions, delivery questions and whatever you are asking....

ArachnoPhil_nr: figured it was better than peroxide

PHMorgan: It is good for that, but how severe is the puncture wound? How was it acquired?

ArachnoPhil_nr: wounds that is darn typo

PHMowgli: phil yes it is good to put on puncture wounds but also if it is a bite wound they tend to get infected

PHMorgan: (need more info)

PHMorgan: Where is the puncture?

sissa_nr: I would love to chat about puppies coming back but I have to have puppies first

ArachnoPhil_nr: not bad our dog broke his leash today made the mistake of going after the neighbors chow mix

PHMorgan: OK - so it is a bite. First, how many are there? Usually there are TWO if there is one

ArachnoPhil_nr: got 4 tooth punctures from it and some soreness

PHMorgan: Where? ON leg? FacE?

ArachnoPhil_nr: none bad back and shoulder

PHMorgan: OK - here's what I would do - clip the hair away from the wounds and wash down with peroxide. Dog won't like it, but do it

PHMorgan: Then put on neosporin.

ArachnoPhil_nr: 3 are just tooth sized one tore a bit maybe 6mm size on the worst one

PHMorgan: Then call vet and ask for antibiotics - they nearly always get somewhat infected

PHMowgli: I would actually do same as morgan only I would put on iodine not neosporin LOL

PHMorgan: 6MM is pretty deep - definitely get some bug killer drugs

ArachnoPhil_nr: yeah I know they get infected usually

ArachnoPhil_nr: not 6mm deep wide

ArachnoPhil_nr: seems like it ripped a bit

PHMorgan: Keep the wounds clean and if they begin to swell (which tey will) use hot compresses of water & epsom salts 2-3 times a day

PHMorgan: But the antibiotics are probably necessary

ArachnoPhil_nr: the hair isn't in the way and the wounds are clean short hair jack russell

PHMorgan: Also not expensive

PHMorgan: You've no idea how many germs the chow might have had....

ArachnoPhil_nr: far from the 1st scuffed dog I've dealt with just been a while and wasnt sure on the neosporin thing

PHMorgan: Also she will probably be fairly sore tomorrow - you probably won't be able to see the bruising

PHMorgan: Yeah - Neosporin is fine

ArachnoPhil_nr: he's pretty sore now but is still moving pretty good

PHMorgan: That's good

PHMorgan: Poor little man - got a Napoleon complex does he?

ArachnoPhil_nr: was somewhat concerned about the kidneys at 1st but all seems well with that

PHMorgan: Ramsey - your momdog still panting away?

PHMowgli: Welcome to Dog Breeders Chat! Tonight's topic is "When Puppies Come Back"

PHMorgan: Hiya, Deer - how was the Dr visit? Did they send you home with nasty antibiotics?

Deerhounds: LOL

ArachnoPhil_nr: more of a not socialized mixed with stupid pride complex

ArachnoPhil_nr: :)

Deerhounds: no, they test the tick first here

Deerhounds: if the tick has Lyme or anything THEN they put me on abx

PHMorgan: Wow - they just give us antibiotics. but this is Lyme's capitol, so

PHMowgli: RAmsey's bitch is in labor now?

PHMowgli: I must have fallen then LOL

PHMorgan: She's busily panting and digging

Deerhounds: Morgan, well, they give them here too but not if the tick doesn't HAVE Lyme

ArachnoPhil_nr: chow mix was on a lead so it was totally his fault seems like avoiding it would've been easy but I guess he felt the need to try and whoop him a large dog

Deerhounds: since testing the tick is simple and free (public health dept does it) it seems to make a lot more sense this way

PHMorgan: Sure does

PHMorgan: How's the shoulder?

PHMowgli: phil lots of terriers tend to be dog aggressive

ArachnoPhil_nr: ours has only been around us he is anything but us aggressive

PHMorgan: The really sad part, Phil, is that he will probably figure that he'll "get him next time" LOLOL

ArachnoPhil_nr: yeah when they seperated them he got the chow on the ear

PHMorgan: He was probably just being his normal bad self - telling the chow how tough he was....

ArachnoPhil_nr: guess he had to get one in

PHMorgan: Terriers have er... size issues- they don't know how small they are

PHMorgan: Deer -did you SHOWER???

Deerhounds: LOL Morgan, yes, I did

Deerhounds: why?

PHMowgli: phil I did not mean he was a vicious dog I meant cause of the terrier and they are sparring dogs in general

Deerhounds: do I smell?

Deerhounds: ROFL

PHMorgan: Hmmmm - cause our chatters are BOLTING... LOL

ArachnoPhil_nr: the Jack Russells arent as bad as a lot of terriers but Max in particular isn't an outside dog so he treats anything that isn't part of the family as an enemy

PHMowgli: it must be cause she has parasites and we all know those buggers can move LOL

ArachnoPhil_nr: if folks come over I have to be in the room or someone has to put him outside

Deerhounds: my chow mix had to be kept away from my guests

Deerhounds: she had already met everyone she wanted to meet

ArachnoPhil_nr: he wont go for someone if I'm there telling him to stay but he wont obey the wifester and son as well as he does for me

Deerhounds: she was very suspicious of anyone new

PHMorgan: That's a great way to put it, Deer.... LOLOL

Deerhounds: she adored my mom, my brothers, and a couple of my friends, that was it

PHMorgan: She'd already met everyone she wanted to meet... LOLOL

Deerhounds: LOL

PHMowgli: Welcome to Show Dog Chat Tonights Topic Matches Why Go?

Deerhounds: Because there are fewer people to see you fall flat on your butt when your puppy bolts out of the ring?

PHMowgli: I choose this topic because I feel it is also a great way to re-socialize those pups you get back

PHMowgli: also if you are new in dogs and are not sure ifyou want to owner handle or hire a pri a match is a great way to get started

PHMorgan: Matches - why to go - because all my pups are 100% trained by 3 months and I can go BIM

PHMorgan: LOL

Deerhounds: you are a bad person, Morgan

PHMowgli: Morgan great reason LOL

PHMorgan: Ok - off to finish my e-mail, folks

Deerhounds: Night! See ya next week!