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Transcript: Dog Breeding Chat Tuesday, March 23, 2004: Veterans PHChristy: Hi there bert! Welcome to Veterans' Night in Dog Breeders Chat - Our topic tonight is Caring for our Older Dogs! Rueger: thursday we have the communicator chat right? Rueger: Hey bert PHChristy: No, that's coming up but not this week Rueger: oh ok let me know when LOL PHChristy: of course I will PHChristy: how are you tonight, bert? Rueger: I cannot remember from day to day what I am doing LOL bert_nr: I've dropped in at the right time then I have a girl that will be 14 on June 14th Rueger: hey great bert PHChristy: that's great, bert! I dont' remember, do you have... Sammies? bert_nr: I would like to know about the communicator too. PHChristy: I have a twelve year old and three eleven year olds bert_nr: Yep Sammies Rueger: my 12 old is holding strong she is eating much better with her compresses too PHChristy: Rue, that is great Rueger: she ate a whole chicken breat tonight PHChristy: I hope she feels better bert_nr: My girl is starting to show some age Rueger: breast* PHChristy: bert, what is the lifespan like on Samoyeds? PHChristy: typically? bert_nr: she actually completed her NAP and NJP in December PHChristy: and Rue, how about for Shelties and Collies? PHChristy: bert, what are NAP and NJP? Rueger: for collies 10-12 and shelties typically about 15 but with the lymphoma I am not daring to hope for that long bert_nr: From 13 to 15 is average. I've had several from my lines live past 15 but not to 16 PHChristy: 10-12 is what it is for deerhounds also PHChristy: maybe more like 8-10 for males Rueger: well with all the bloat in collies it is not a guarantee of course but if you have a good healthy collie around 12 is avg bert_nr: Novice preferred and Novice Jumpers preferred agility titles. She finished her Excellent right after she turned 12 and wasn't ready to quit PHChristy: that's just wonderful, bert, congratulations on that! PHChristy: Hi there trav! Welcome to Veterans' Night in Dog Breeders Chat - Our topic tonight is Caring for our Older Dogs! Rueger: and here my 12 yr old is lucky to go up stairs some days LOL PHChristy: bert, how old was she when you started doing Agility with her? bert_nr: I switched to Raw after Muirgen bloated at 8 1/2 Rueger: I never had a dog bloat but I also do not feed kibble bert_nr: She was about 5 but didn't like strangers near her and it took awhile to get that first Q PHChristy: I have never had a dog bloat, KNOCKING FRANTICALLY ON WOOD PHChristy: I know that the risk of bloating increases the older the dog gets PHChristy: so I stay very alert for the signs bert_nr: Also I work 6 days a week so could only attend about 1 trial a month Rueger: Christy me too now that my baby Ruegey is 8 I watch him like a hawk PHChristy: bert, that's a rough schedule with dogs PHChristy: I am very lucky to be able to work at home Rueger: hard to believe the brat is getting old PHChristy: Trav, what is the normal lifespan of Poms? bert_nr: Muirgen's to "pups" here will be 8 April 2nd so I have mainly "older" dogs PHChristy: I have two five year olds PHChristy: well, one of them wont' be five for another month bert_nr: That is they will be NINE on April 2nd Rueger: I now have everything from 7 mths to 12 yrs old bert_nr: Then there's the monster child Sir who was 1 year in January PHChristy: LOL travlinpom_nr: Ten is getting old . . . twelve is really old . . . fourteen is way up there . . . not too many make it to sixteen bert_nr: Do you have all Deerhounds? PHChristy: Pom, really? I am surprised, I think of the toys as living much longer than that Rueger: wow trav I would have thought poms being small would live longer PHChristy: bert, no, I have one cattle dog/Chessie mix and one Borzoi PHChristy: the rest are deerhounds Rueger: chrsity quit reading my mind bert_nr: Poms seem to have alot of problems though right? PHChristy: LOL Rueger, sorry 'bout that PHChristy: I do think of toy breeds as being very long lived PHChristy: like, 20 Rueger: me too I tend to think they will outlive me LOL bert_nr: Friends of mine who started with Borzoi, got into Paps and now have a Deerhound in agility travlinpom_nr: My Asa is eleven and really showing his age, but i also still have his mom, who is 13, and she still acts like a puppy Rueger: I have some 9 yr olds I am pretty certain are going to outlive me they are running me into my grave LOL travlinpom_nr: bert, no more than other breeds . . . luxating patellas, BSD, some heart murmurs PHChristy: bert, where do they compete in Agility with a deerhound? There aren't many! bert_nr: Black skin?? bert_nr: She's just gotten her first leg....... in N/W PA PHChristy: I haven't heard that Pomeranians have many health problems, especially compared to some other toys PHChristy: what is BSD? travlinpom_nr: bert, yes we have major problems with BSD bert_nr: Have a friend that shows Poms and she's had some of everything I think Rueger: I think all breeds have health problems and like all breeds we breed away from them as good breeders travlinpom_nr: Christy, Black Skin Disease . . . . a hair loss problem travlinpom_nr: bert, who is that? bert_nr: Sherry Lawall she doesn't breed just buys and shows her dogs. travlinpom_nr: Christy, there is a major study being funded by APC to find the cause and possibly a genetic marker, but so far, we know very little about it PHChristy: Pom, do they think it's hormonal? travlinpom_nr: Christy, possibly . . . also could be somewhat pigment related, as we see it mostly in light orange boys, not nearly as often in blacks or blk&tans travlinpom_nr: Also much more common in the boys PHChristy: I think I remember you talking about this once PHChristy: it's starting to come back to me bert_nr: Sherry's were both boys that were affected PHChristy: my CRS Syndrome gets in the way sometimes PHChristy: I'm always very interested in health problems that appear to be sex linked
Rueger: trav could it be related to dermamyotisitus in shelties?
travlinpom_nr: It's a big problem because it usually hits at about a year old . . . some of those boys have already finished by then and are being used at stud
PHChristy: although in this case it probably isn't, if it's MOSTLY boys but not ONLY boys?
bert_nr: Well, they're finding more markers all the time. We can now do Optigen for PRA in Sammies
PHChristy: bert, that is so wonderful
PHChristy: I can't wait for the day we have a test for some of the problems we see in my breed
bert_nr: The SCA is pushing studies for Dwarfism
travlinpom_nr: Christy, yes it is MOSTLY boys, probably over 80 percent of the cases are in males, but it does sometimes occur in the bitches
PHChristy: they are very close to finding a test for osteosarcoma in our breed
Rueger: wow that would be great christy
travlinpom_nr: Christy, but then again, it could be a whole different thing when it occurs in bitches, it looks a lot like thyroid hair loss too . . . could be misdiagnosed
PHChristy: and I'm participating in a study to find a marker for cystinuria, which is a kidney defect that affects only males as far as we know
Rueger: we have pra for our breed and vwd so far
PHChristy: Pom, yes, that is what I was thinking
bert_nr: THAT will be great....... I lost my second Sam to cancer
PHChristy: bert, is there a big problem with dwarfism in Sammies?
PHChristy: we have some problems with that in deerhounds, both hypothyroid dwarfism, and pituitary
bert_nr: Not really we know most of the lines that possibly carry it. More prevelant in Mals
PHChristy: yes, true in deerhounds too
bert_nr: Thing is they have linked Retinal Folds/Retinal Dysplasia to the Dwarfism
PHChristy: I haven't heard of a dwarf in a LOOOONG time
PHChristy: really??
PHChristy: that's interesting!
PHChristy: you'd never think of that
Rueger: I have never seen a dwarf to be honest
bert_nr: Actually a breeder here in PA did a test breeding years ago to find out about the Retinal Dysplasia and ended up with 4 dwarfs.
PHChristy: bert, talk about a lucky/unlucky find
Rueger: well other than the breeds that were founded on dwarfs such as dacshunds and such
PHChristy: but that's the kind of thing that can save ten years of research
PHChristy: by sheer luck
bert_nr: Dr Aukland at Cornell was at Penn Vet school and did a study with/of them
PHChristy: What do you think are the biggest obstacles in your dogs to a happy old age?
Rueger: those were sammies bert?
PHChristy: for me, assuming the dog misses out on any major problems such as bloat or caridio or osteo, it's arthritis
travlinpom_nr: Yep, arthritis
PHChristy: deerhounds injure themselves a lot when they are young, especially their necks, and they all seem to suffer from arthritis when they're old
Rueger: for me I am seeing a huge number of cancers in older shelties
Rueger: and arthritis
travlinpom_nr: But i started my Asa on glycosamine and it really has helped him
PHChristy: I have been SO blessed not to have cancer in any of my dogs
bert_nr: I don't remember the bloodlines of the dogs. I do know the owners of the male were in MD or VA and he was known to have RD.
PHChristy: my mom's bitch had mixed cell mammary tumor but she was 12
PHChristy: Pom, I've been very happy with glucosamine, and then also Adequan, which is kind of an injectable glucosamine
PHChristy: my chow mix got that, and one of my deerhounds now
PHChristy: the others are doing great on oral glucosamine (I use Cosequin)
Rueger: adequan did not work for buster but that was yrs ago and he was pretty bad off by the time adequan was available
bert_nr: Leah's bitch was suspected so she did the breeding and was cruified for it
travlinpom_nr: Christy, Nzymes were also recommended to me for him and for one of my girls . . . i bought some at the L'ville shows, going to start them this week
PHChristy: bert, I can't believe they would crucify a breeder for doing a test breeding??? wont' that only help the breed?
bert_nr: My older girl gets glucosimine/condrotion
PHChristy: Pom, I have heard REALLY good things about enzymes from a lot of folks on the K9 Nutrition list
PHChristy: they never helped my dogs, but I always give them a try
Rueger: I use cosequin for my arthritis dogs also that seems to work well
bert_nr: what are Nzymes?
PHChristy: I think perhaps since my dogs get so many enzymes in their raw diet, they already have that covered
PHChristy: I was referring to just enzyme products in general, not a brand name
travlinpom_nr: Christy, this brand is supposed to be pretty good . . . they also have an oxygen additive for the dog's water that is suppose to help
PHChristy: I've used Wobenzym and a couple of others that I'm going blank on right now
bert_nr: People are looking at it differently now but they were very nasty to her
PHChristy: Ark Naturals makes a product called Joint Rescue that has enzymes as well as cosequin and chondroitin
PHChristy: I've used that also
PHChristy: bert, it's just tragic when people are that short sighted and petty
PHChristy: I think she was courageous
Rueger: I have heard that floral waters can help too
travlinpom_nr: I talked to the guy at some length, wanted to be sure they were safe for Asa since he is on Glyco flex and Lasix
PHChristy: Omega 3 fatty acids are also EXTREMELY important and beneficial for arthritis
PHChristy: and whenever they overdo it, walk too far or play too hard, I give them the homeopathic remedy arnica when we get back
PHChristy: which really helps prevent them from being too stressed
Rueger: yep I always use my oils for all the dogs a bit extra for old ones though
bert_nr: I'm now giving Murigen the Fish Oil caps in the quality you suggested
PHChristy: bert, I hope it helps!!
PHChristy: I take them myself and it's really helped my skin, made a HUGE difference for me
travlinpom_nr: I keep Metacam here for Asa if he gets really bad, but havent used it in awhile
PHChristy: I couldn't used to take them, they gave me a bit of heartburn, but now it's fine
bert_nr: Me too...... I'm thinking about 2 months to see a difference or is that too soon
PHChristy: Pom, I'll give an aspirin (Ascriptin) if they get too bad
travlinpom_nr: He went to the L'ville shows and specialty with me, a whole week away from home, and he did just fine
PHChristy: but I almost never have to do that, I did that more with my chow mix who had HD
PHChristy: and I can't recommend acupunture enough
PHChristy: and regular chiropractic adjustments
PHChristy: One of my oldtimers, Rosie, was suddenly showing some exercise intolerance after a trip
bert_nr: Muirgen had that once when she got "hit" my a running dog that thought she should plow throught the others
Rueger: I was just gonna ask if anyone had tried accupuncture LOL
PHChristy: and I guess hurt herself somehow in the car, maybe when she was trying to change position while the car went around a turn or something
Rueger: because Whitney's vet suggested we try accupuncture for her cancer to help her feel more comfortable
bert_nr: ONly the once ...... do chiropractic regularly with all of them.......
PHChristy: because I took her to the chiro, she said she was really a mess. She adjusted her, and she was instantly fine again... her old self
PHChristy: Ruger, it can really help with pain or anxiety
PHChristy: it releases endorphins, too, so they feel good
PHChristy: bert, she only had acupuncture once?
Rueger: Ok then I will make the appointment tomorrow
bert_nr: That's right
PHChristy: there is one spot on the head, my vet calls it the "happy spot"
PHChristy: they can maybe show you where it is and you can do acupressure on it
PHChristy: and perhaps some other spots that might help with any pain
bert_nr: She was like her old self the next day
PHChristy: the first time I took my dysplastic chow mix for acupuncture, she walked into the vet's office on three legs and walked out on four
PHChristy: Hello mals! Welcome to Veterans' Night in Dog Breeders Chat - Our topic tonight is Caring for our Older Dogs!
Rueger: wow that is great Christy
PHChristy: we were just discussing arthritis, and various things we've tried to help with it
mals247_nr: do any of you have mals or siberian huskeys?
Rueger: my vets does not do accupuncture i have to take Whitney to other vet but my vet will give me a reccomenadation to get in right away
PHChristy: acupuncture, glucosamine, Adequan, fish oil capsules, enzymes
travlinpom_nr: mals, i had Sibes years ago, but not anymore
bert_nr: Hey don't Sammies count?
PHChristy: I have Scottish Deerhounds and a Borzoi....
PHChristy: and a cattle dog mix
travlinpom_nr: Pomeranians here
Rueger: shelties and 2 collies here
mals247_nr: i have a question
PHChristy: for pulling really little sleds, right trav? PHChristy: mals, sure go ahead!
mals247_nr: do any of you have mals or siberian huskys
Rueger: shelties could pull a little sled too LOL
travlinpom_nr: and herding hamsters . . . .
bert_nr: I think mals isn't seeing us
PHChristy: mals, no, bert has Samoyeds and Trav used to have Sibes...
Rueger: trav do they really herd hamsters or are you lieing to me? LOL
travlinpom_nr: there is an echo in here . . . .
PHChristy: I think you're right
mals247_nr: who is a dog expert?
travlinpom_nr: Rue, bring on the hamsters!! we'll show you!! heeheehee
bert_nr: We all are LOL
mals247_nr: because i need to no if mals or siberian huskys are really hard to take care of
PHChristy: mals, can you see this? If so, say yes
bert_nr: I obedience trained a Mal once
mals247_nr: no
mals247_nr: was it good?
mals247_nr: [img id=em-3]
bert_nr: She was if my brother wasn't around. If he was she'd show me her toothies.
travlinpom_nr: mals, Sibes are very active dogs, they need lots of running time, they are great escape artists and hard to keep contained, they are also one of the very worst for shedding
mals247_nr: really
Rueger: and also very single trainer owner minded
Rueger: they tend to have 1 person they really listen to and not entire household
PHChristy: I would say Sibes and Mals are some of the harder dogs to keep and train
PHChristy: definitely not a breed I'd recommend for an inexperienced owner
mals247_nr: my kid wants one a wants to have it as a pet and sled dog(just to pull a snow sled in our yard)[img id=em-3]
bert_nr: I would have to agree about the training issues with nordic breeds
PHChristy: mals, I wouldn't do it, lots of breeds love to pull and would be a better choice for a family dog
PHChristy: Bernese Mountain Dog
bert_nr: Sams however have a different background and were used for more than just travel
PHChristy: GREAT family dogs, great pullers
Rueger: for a first time pet owner I usually recommend a nice firendly shelter dog
PHChristy: not competitive as a sled dog, but you don't need that
mals247_nr: are they good w/ kids?
PHChristy: mals, yes, they are excellent with children
PHChristy: one of the best of all breeds with kids, in my opinion
PHChristy: very gentle
Rueger: many great dogs are found at shelters and you can take your children with you to find a dog too
bert_nr: Nope best breed with kids is a Samoyed.
Rueger: Beagles are great for kids too
PHChristy: I didn't say the best, I said ONE OF, LOL
Rueger: but small and they have that bay to the moon thing LOL
PHChristy: and I was thinking of dogs who would pull..... I do tend to think of Samoyeds as being a bit much for a first time dog owner also
travlinpom_nr: <<--- not going to argue . . . . Poms and kids are not a good mix
bert_nr: I was raised with Airedales and Samoyeds were the choice to have a breed that was safe around my brothers baby girl
bert_nr: why is that Christy?
Rueger: shelties are fine with kids sometimes other times they round em up and make sit in a circle on floor and won't them move LOL
PHChristy: bert, maybe just the Nordic stereotype....
PHChristy: you feel they are good family dogs, easier than the Sibes and Mals?
bert_nr: But Samoyeds aren't the typical nordic breed they were actually kept WITH the children in the yerts for protection
travlinpom_nr: and off to the pet shop he went . . . .
Rueger: I think many people tend to remember our own dogs as children and think they are the best for kids
Rueger: when in fact they are not the best breeds we just had great dogs LOL
Rueger: I kept saying shelter dogs are best LOL
bert_nr: If you've every read anything about the polar expeditions they all write about the friendliness of the "white" dogs
PHChristy: LOL
PHChristy: bert, well, in that case, I will revise my adivce from now on Rueger: ah but bert how do we know they were not talking about american eskimos LOL
Rueger: or little white poms LOL
PHChristy: LOL
bert_nr: One thing I hated about obedience instructors was them telling everyone that Norhtern breeds are stuborn when actually they're usually smarter than the instructor and owner put together
Rueger: see you just assume they mean sammies
PHChristy: ROFL
PHChristy: welcome back, Mals
mals2472_nr: hi
Rueger: WB
PHChristy: hello! Welcome to Veterans' Night in Dog Breeders Chat - Our topic tonight is Caring for our Older Dogs!
bert_nr: I never saw mention of Poms going to the south pole
mals2472_nr: i gtg ttyl
PHChristy: night!
Rueger: hey christy
christy123456_nr: hey
PHChristy: bert, didn't you read that great book by Jack London, Call of the Little Tiny Fluffy Sled Dogs?
mals2472_nr: any of you have aim s/n
Rueger: I read it Christy
bert_nr: I must have missed that one ....... do you have a copy?
PHChristy: hello jcunitz! Welcome to Veterans' Night in Dog Breeders Chat - Our topic tonight is Caring for our Older Dogs!
Rueger: hi jc
christy123456_nr: where is the lady who told me about tonightsd topic?
PHChristy: LOL bert, sure, you can get it at Amazon
jcunitz: hey can u pop into reptiles?
Rueger: I have a copy bert you want to borrow it?
mals2472_nr: do any of you have aim s/n?
PHChristy: christy, do you mean me?
mals2472_nr: do any of you have aim s/n?
PHChristy: jcunitz, I can
mals2472_nr: [img id=em-6]
bert_nr: Sure Rueger
christy123456_nr: yeah was it u last night i was talking to? i am terrible with names lol
mals2472_nr: do any of you have aim s/n?[img id=em-3]
christy123456_nr: sorry
jcunitz: thanks... some guy is trying to start somehting about kitties... keeps on saying that he likes to use them as target practice
Rueger: ok bert I will drop it in mail for you tomorrow
mals2472_nr: do any of you have aim s/n?
mals2472_nr: do any of you have aim s/n?
travlinpom_nr: mals, apparently NOT
Rueger: mals this chat is for dogs not to find people to chat with you on AIM
Rueger: so about our veterans
christy123456_nr: ph?
mals2472_nr: i no but my internet keeps kicking me oof
mals2472_nr: off
Rueger: does anyone change the food for their older guys?
mals2472_nr: w/e
PHChristy: sorry! I had to go help out in reptiles but I"m done now!
PHChristy: Christy, no, I didn't talk to you last night
Rueger: christy did you have a question?
christy123456_nr: i thought this was a breeding topic tonight
Rueger: I did christy
bert_nr: Not since I switched to raw 5 years ago end of this month
PHChristy: hello meow! Welcome to Veterans' Night in Dog Breeders Chat - Our topic tonight is Caring for our Older Dogs!
travlinpom_nr: Rue, yes, i now feed Royal Canin for older dogs, as well as my regular food
PHChristy: christy, this is breeding chat
Rueger: I was talking to you last night
christy123456_nr: hi were we in this room or dog house?
PHChristy: tonight our topic is our older dogs, but anything about dog breeding is fine
Rueger: this room christy
christy123456_nr: ok
PHChristy: meow.... please stop playing the sounds. THanks
christy123456_nr: lol
christy123456_nr: wow confusing to christys
christy123456_nr: so where is she?
PHChristy: christy, I know, I was just thinking that Rueger: not to me LOL
christy123456_nr: do u know rueger?
PHChristy: christy, so where is who?
PHChristy: christy, did you have a dog breeding question?
Rueger: christy is looking for PHMowgli LOL
bert_nr: You've got me lost
christy123456_nr: yes thank u rueger lol
PHChristy: bert, you and me both
Rueger: which will be here any second LOL
PHChristy: PHMowgli will be here any minute
PHChristy: she hosts the next chat after this one
christy123456_nr: cool
christy123456_nr: ok
christy123456_nr: ty
PHChristy: which is Showdog chat
christy123456_nr: ok
bert_nr: What's next??
christy123456_nr: then breeding right?
PHChristy: anyway, I have another question about your senior dogs....
PHChristy: breeding is now
bert_nr: That should be a good one too
travlinpom_nr: christy, this is breeding chat
PHChristy: do you spay and neuter them when they are through being bred and shown?
christy123456_nr: ph just talking bout u
christy123456_nr: how r u?
PHChristy: Hi Mowgli!
PHChristy: Welcome to Veterans' Night in Dog Breeders Chat - Our topic tonight is Caring for our Older Dogs!
Rueger: yes next chat is veteran dogs in showing
PHMowgli: Hey all
PHChristy: I have been spaying my females but not neutering my males
bert_nr: I only do if necessary due to health problems
Rueger: I do the same Christy
christy123456_nr: mowgli how r u?
travlinpom_nr: Christy, in general, i dont spay/neuter my older kids unless there is an indication of a problem
PHMowgli: christy and you?
christy123456_nr: good
PHChristy: you mean such as a pyo or enlarged prostate?
christy123456_nr: hubby here
christy123456_nr: too
PHMowgli: I nueter my boys if they are under 8 when I retire them other wise I just keep an eye on them
travlinpom_nr: Christy, yep . . . but i probably am a bit paranoid, if one of the girls gets even a slight strange discharge . . . off to the vet for a spay
PHChristy: I have kept all my males intact
bert_nr: First male I ever owned is approaching 9
PHChristy: ah
christy123456_nr: i am showing my dogs in april
christy123456_nr: and may
travlinpom_nr: My twelve year old is still breeding . . . .
bert_nr: I've only ever spayed two of my bitches
Rueger: trav is there a lot of problems in toy bitches being they are so close to ground?
PHChristy: Pom, that's wonderful!
PHMowgli: obviously a male trav
bert_nr: Pom I hope that ones a male......... lol
PHChristy: KDD!!! Welcome to Veterans' Night in Dog Breeders Chat - Our topic tonight is Caring for our Older Dogs!
travlinpom_nr: Mow, LOL, yes a male
PHMowgli: Kathy Hi long time no see
KDiamondDavis: I have two of those older types. Hi Everyone
PHChristy: the only bitch we never spayed was the one who had mixed cell mammary tumors in her old age, but she was 12
PHChristy: until then she had no problems
travlinpom_nr: He has a litter of three on the ground now . . . three months old
PHChristy: KDD, yes, I'm blessed with four seniors right now!
christy123456_nr: what do u consider senior?
PHChristy: and a deerhound at 12 is a girl who's had a good long run!
PHMowgli: I had 3 bitches spayed during c- sections
bert_nr: Mine was almost 13 same reason. And her daughter with her last litter due to complicaitons
PHChristy: christy, depends on the breed, but usually anything over 7
KDiamondDavis: Have any of ya'll read Amy Fernandez's new book "Dog Breeding as a Fine Art"? Not brand new--2003.
PHChristy: KDD, no, do you recommend it?
PHMowgli: I never read it Kathy
PHChristy: I think that Karen Thayne on the Dog Breeding yahoogroup may have mentioned it, but I dont' recall if she gave it a thumbs up or down
PHMowgli: actually never heard of it
KDiamondDavis: Christy, I hope so, we're doing it on DogRead for April. I haven't read it yet, have it right in front of me. Chris Walkowicz says it's amazing.
KDiamondDavis: Mowgli, it's very new
PHChristy: well, Chris would knoe
christy123456_nr: do all your dogs get along?
PHChristy: know
bert_nr: Chris' book is good so that says somehting
PHChristy: KDD, I will order it and join DogRead, I'll also mention it on the reminder list for this chat, if you don't object?
PHChristy: we have over 400 people on the list
PHChristy: christy, all my dogs do
bert_nr: already on dogread it takes up most of my email
christy123456_nr: any ukc dogs here?
PHChristy: I had a chow mix that my cattle dog mix used to fight with, but she's gone to the Bridge now, and none of my deerhounds ever fight
christy123456_nr: thats cool
KDiamon
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