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Transcript: Dog Breeding Chat Tuesday, May 10, 2005: How Far Is Too Far to Go to Get Your Bitch Pregnant? PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far to Go?" PHMorgan: Hey - lotsa new folks tonight - WELCOME! berta: Hi Christy PHMorgan: ::::Passing the brownies!::: berta: Oh TY curliousCresteds: so what are some examples of going too far to get 'em pregnant? aussiejack: Okay, i have a 3 year old aussie that has, as my husband puts it (engineer) 2.5 heat cycles per 12 month period, each time followed by false preganancies BarbW: going to E-bay for sperm PHMorgan: OMG LOL PHChristy: LOL Barb reggie73: people really buy sperm on ebay? PHChristy: aussie, well ... false pregnancies are normal, do you mean, really extreme false pregnancies? curliousCresteds: LOL yea that would be too far I think! MagGot: hello everyone PHChristy: Hi, MagGot! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?" PHMorgan: So she is in season every 4-5 months, and has false pregnancies in between, so is hormonal for 10 of 12 months? reggie73: if my two cant figure it out on their own then it wasnt meant to be MagGot: wow nice topic MagGot: lol PHMorgan: For my breed, I would agree, REggie - I think natural breeding should be done anytime it PHMorgan: is possible, logistically seawindbt: i just got the news yesterday that my girl is PG (ultrasound at about day 32) aussiejack: ph, morgan, yes, sorry I am a slow typer PHMorgan: Congrats, Sea! curliousCresteds: congrats Seawind! PHChristy: I tend to think that unless there are extenuating circumstances (such as an injury), if they can't get the deed done naturally, they don't belong in my breeding program. seawindbt: She had TWO misses using AI. PHMorgan: Aussie - no, no, just doing the math in my head curliousCresteds: My boy's first litter is due any day! aussiejack: congrats, Seawind seawindbt: This time we did natural. . . they say its a large litter PHMorgan: Is this common for this line of dogs? Tangaloor: Yeah I had one bitch that wouldn't not ever stand for a boy and always was harrassed and such, I opted to spay her. She just didn't ever want to be bred. Three heat cycles was enough to put us both through reggie73: i have toy dachshunds that i am going to breed when they are older but no extreme measures PHChristy: congrats to all the expectant "moms" in the chat! aussiejack: phmorgan, no, her mother was not like this PHChristy: Tangaloor, yeah .... PHMorgan: ::: passing around the baby booties::: PHMorgan: Those are for the puppies to chew on... hehehe PHChristy: however, there are breeds where you do have to contend with greater limitations Tangaloor: And that's behvior in heat, wasn't something I'd really want to pass on anyway ;-) seawindbt: we did AI before as the male we used was across the county. This time we used one just 8 hours from us seawindbt: she stood for him just fine PHMorgan: It's hard to know what is right regarding breeds like Bulldogs PHChristy: there are breeds where a bitch who doesn't want to stand is the least of your worries, unfortunately BarbW: <----passing up brownies, passing up baby booties Tangaloor: Yup there sure are, Christy reggie73: i am new to this (just two dogs) - what should i look for when she goes into heat? PHMorgan: I have been told it's very uncommon for bitches in certain breeds to be cooperative, and the same for males in other breeds.... curliousCresteds: I flew my guy across the country for his hot weekend, was being showin in PA and flew out to WA to get 'er done PHChristy: I think that the technology is great if you want to spare your bitch being shipped, or want to use a stud who is long dead aussiejack: do any of you ever have a bitch that goes into season this frequent? PhMorgan, I'd say they are moderate false pregancies, with enlarged breasts PHMorgan: Reggie - swelling around the vulva..... Some discharge, or in absence of that, copious bodily cleaning.... reggie73: i check her everyday and so far no changes PHChristy: aussiejack, that's pretty frequent ... but the false pregnancy sounds perfectly normal PHMorgan: Aussie - most of my bitches have pretty severe false pregnancies - milk, digging up dog beds, the whole 9 yards reggie73: my male may be too young to do any damage anyway cntrstgpom: Morgan, do you know which breeds are like that? PHMorgan: Reggie - don't count on that reggie73: all of his parts arent even there yet - lol PHChristy: you have to realize that a bitch's body goes through "pregnancy" hormonally whether she conceives or not, that's just how they are made curliousCresteds: never assume they are too young! PHChristy: reggie, those are famous last words PHChristy: Hi SmoothCollie! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?" PHMorgan: I have heard that GSDs and huskies are notoriously difficult in the female end, and that a lot of Afghan males are disinterested. I'm no expert, certainly reggie73: so males dont have a sexually mature age? curliousCresteds: they do, but its pretty much different for every male BarbW: I had a Sib male who never would breed cntrstgpom: that's interesting aussiejack: PhChrsitie, i've read that after each successive heat the uterus becomes inlfamed and over time becomes less healthy, have you read the same thing berta: sure they do but it could be as young as 4 months PHChristy: unless a bitch is really nutso after being in season, I wouldn't worry about a false pregnancy. Nutso would be aggressive or really suffering PHChristy: aussie, yes, absolutely PHMorgan: THey can be fertile as young as 4-5 months, altho 8-12 is more common - you just never know. My boys are often QUITE interested in girls in heat at 5-6 months and are quite willing to make the attempt curliousCresteds: my boy was ready to go at 4mo! PHChristy: reggie, yes, but it's not a sure thing just when that is PHMorgan: Aussie - keep in mind dogs have a different hormonal process when in season than humans. PHChristy: never, ever say "Oh, he's too young" because just saying that makes them fertile PHChristy: Hi, White Gold! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?" PHMorgan: With humans, the hormones are only different if the female IS pregnant. curliousCresteds: LOL christy! reggie73: he turns 6 months old tomorrow - he tries but he doesnt get close (he usually is turned around the wrong way - lol) PHMorgan: With dogs, the same hormonal changes happen each season even if she isn't impregnated. PHMorgan: So, false pregnancies, some milk production etc, are normal PHChristy: reggie, you need to keep them apart and be MUCH more vigilant watching your bitch PHMorgan: REggie - I'd not give him that opportunity once she comes into season PHChristy: how old is she? aussiejack: PhChristy/PHMorgan do you know of any supplement or system that I can use to lessen the cycles, or calm the false pregnancies PHMorgan: Check her EVERY DAY - how old is she? PHChristy: Hi, Shillng! PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?" reggie73: she was born september 19th PHChristy: aussie, I think you need to have her checked by a repro vet first PHChristy: you need to know what's causing the short cycling aussiejack: man, you gals/guys type fast berta: She's still a baby reggie73: i check her every morning and every night for changes PHMorgan: Aussie - if you aren't planning to breed her, I would spay her as soon as feasible - it's the easiest solution, but if you do plan to breed her, it would be a good idea to have her checked out and find out why she is cycling so often PHMorgan: Good job, Reggie - what breed? PHChristy: and once you know what's causing it, you'll know more how to evaluate it and deal with it reggie73: dachshunds berta: cyctic ovaries could be one cause aussiejack: pHChristy, okay good idea, is there a site that lists good rep vets by location? PHMorgan: Smaller dogs mature earlier than large - I would be looking to have her come into season any time MagGot: hehe im backkkkkk PHChristy: yeah, aussie, find out why first. Then we can talk about options PHChristy: Hi again Mag! PHChristy: aussie, not that I know of. Where are you located? reggie73: i bought him his own crate for when she goes into heat - i dont want accidental babies PHMorgan: I had a bitch who cycled just like yours - I did try to breed her twice with no pups. When I finally spayed her she was FULL of ovarian and uterine cysts. PHMorgan: Good plan, Reggie aussiejack: PHChristy, Detroit, Michigan PHChristy: I think cysts are probably the most common erason curliousCresteds: ovarian cysts are NO FUN! PHMorgan: Christy - that is what my repro vet told me PHChristy: Aussie, is Ohio anywhere nearby? aussiejack: PHMorgan, wow...sorry to hear that... PHChristy: Dr. Hutchison is in Ohio, and he's the best berta: Yep aussiejack: yes, I am one hour from teh ohio, border PHChristy: then absolutely go to Dr. Hutch berta: which way aussie? cntrstgpom: Morgan, did your girl have any hair loss due to the cysts? PHMorgan: It was OK, Aussie - I've had lots of nice pups since that bitch. And later, it turned out her brother produced seizures in several litters so apparently someone "upstairs" was watching out for me.... LOL DodgerzBaby: back PHMorgan: No, no hair loss berta: He is just south of Cleveland PHMorgan: Altho she is a pointers so maybe I wouldn't notice... DodgerzBaby: does anyone do obedience? aussiejack: IBerta: I am near Detroit, northe of Toledo PHChristy: Dr. Hutch's office phone number in Ohio is 440-327-8282 PHMorgan: I do, Dogers reggie73: how common are false pregnancies (even if there are no apparent health problems) PHMorgan: <---obedience addict berta: Not so far for you then PHChristy: My geography in that area is totally weak PHMorgan: Very common PHMorgan: MOst dogs have them to some degree or other PHChristy: but I'd drive five hours happily to get to Dr. Hutch curliousCresteds: reggie pretty much every cycle PHMorgan: It's the severity that varies PHMorgan: ALL of mine have them PHChristy: reggie, they are normal.... what Morgan said is just what I'd say too aussiejack: PHMorgan, yeah, I'd say some one was watching over you reggie73: any specific causes or ways to prevent them? PHMorgan: SOme get copious quantities of milk. I just watch them for signs of impaction and cut back on their food until they dry up
PHChristy: me, I'm around 2500 miles from Dr. Hutch, which is a bit far
berta: He's probably about 3 to 4 hours from Toledo. I'm on the other side
PHChristy: reggie, you can't "prevent" them, they are normal
cntrstgpom: just wondering because a friend had the same problem with a bitch, but she started losing hair and alopecia, I was wondering if it was due to the hormone imbalance or something else
curliousCresteds: can only prevent them if shes fixed or actually pregnant i believe
aussiejack: thanks reggie73 for the questions
aussiejack: berta, thanks for the info
DodgerzBaby: is anyone willing to help me with obediene?1
DodgerzBaby: *?!
PHMorgan: I do have one who tends to get swollen glands during a false pregnancy - which I find worrisome. She will be spayed soon. She is 8 anyhow and retired from breeding
aussiejack: PHChristy, thanks for teh phone number
reggie73: i am new to this - i want to know as much as possible before i start the actual breeding part
curliousCresteds: not in this chat Dodgerz
PHChristy: cntrsgpom, yes, coated breeds can really suffer from hormonal fluctuations, even if they are "normal"
PHChristy: aussie, you're welcome!
berta: Oh that would be closer to 3 since I'm about 2 1/4 hours from him and Toledo is about 5 hours from me
PHMorgan: Dodgers - we do have a training tips chat but I can answer some questions (or attempt to
PHChristy: Dodgerz, right now is Dog Breeding Chat, but we have a dog training chat on Fridays at 10 PM ET in this room
PHMorgan: Christy - when is training chat?
berta: Dog training chat is Friday nite
PHChristy: Fridays 10 PM ET right here :)
PHMorgan: Christy - is a mind-reader
curliousCresteds: lol
PHChristy: I wonder if Borzoid will come tonight? I got her avatar loaded in finally!
reggie73: i need to log back in on friday to find out why my female wets the floor when i go to pick her up (its only me that she does this to - go figure)
PHMorgan: LOL
PHMorgan: Aobut time
PHMorgan: Reggie - that is also normal (altho annoying ) it's called submissive urination
PHChristy: yeah, I had to nag the tech guys mercilessly
BarbW: reggie...submissive urination
berta: Did you get the Sheltie too??
DodgerzBaby: There is a difference between when chat is?
MagGot: whats that?
cntrstgpom: I've heard it is pretty common in dachshunds
DodgerzBaby: I had no clue,,,
PHMorgan: The best way to cure submissive urination is to do the following:
PHMorgan: 1) dont make a big deal
reggie73: does that mean that she is afraid of me? i dont want that at all
PHMorgan: 2) Don't make a fuss or eye contact when you pick her up
PHMorgan: No - it's actually a "polite" act among dogs
MagGot: hey sam
PHChristy: Hi, Sams!
SamsSammy: Good evening, all!
DodgerzBaby: Hey Sams
PHMorgan: WE just don't like it much
reggie73: oh so i should be flattered - lol
PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?"
curliousCresteds: iv got a girl who pees when shes excited, same thing though
PHChristy: it's that darn species gap
DodgerzBaby: Does anyone want to whisper me about obedience?
PHMorgan: Reggie - one way to help with it is to train her to SIT and STAY until you pick her up. This can sometimes take her mind off "MOM" picking her up and put her mind on STAY...
curliousCresteds: just have to make sure shes not on the carpet!
PHChristy: we say tomato, they say tomahto, we say hi, they piddle
BarbW: LOL christy
reggie73: i thought that maybe i was scaring her
PHMorgan: Most of mine who have exhibited that behavior outgrow it by about age 2-3 and it dimishes gradually over that time
PHMorgan: Nah
PHMorgan: Sh'es just REALLY POLITE
reggie73: she does it then she rolls over on her back
reggie73: every time
DodgerzBaby: oh, I have questions on how to train the hurdles
PHMorgan: OK - so how about AIs - when is it "going to far"?
PHChristy: My evaluation of "too far" is centered on WHY we're doing it...
PHChristy: if we're doing it because we're trying to work around a problem in our lines with reproduction, then I think it's too far. But doing the exact same thing because, say, the stud dog is 3000 miles away, is fine
PHChristy: it's not to me the technology, the cost, or the procedure, but the reason
PHMorgan: I agree
reggie73: i have been doing research on dachshunds for over a year and i am absolutely amazed at breeders who breed patterns to patterns that cause lethal genes - i dont understand that
aussiejack: Well Gang, I will log out, very nice chatting with all of you, thanks PhMorgan, and Christy and Berta...I will have her looked at and when I get info, I will log back in to let you know. I sure hope it is not cycstic ovaries and that she won't keep a pregnancy, she's a really nice dog, structure and personality....we'll see
PHChristy: as breeders we have got to have healthy animals who can breed and whelp
curliousCresteds: i know some people who AI when the dogs are in teh same room, no problems, but because its less messy?
PHChristy: ok aussie, goodnight and keep us posted!
PHMorgan: My next litter is probably going to be an AI because the bitch is due in season in July , and I won't ship her in summer (or at all) and the dog will be quite some distance
PHMorgan: Good luck, Aussie
aussiejack: will do and thanks for teh good luck
PHChristy: curlious, well, I think that's silly but the only harm is that you don't have the information you need to know if they will breed naturally
PHMorgan: Curlious - I'm not sure HOW it's less messy - I think it's VERY messy
PHChristy: hi pitbull! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?"
MagGot: do u type that everytime?
MagGot: ***phchristy
pitbull_nr: hows everybody?\
curliousCresteds: I thought it was retarted, personally
PHChristy: There is also a better conception rate for natural breedings than fresh AI, so I think that's silly
PHChristy: MagGot, no, I copy and paste it
curliousCresteds: let them have some fun since they are both there
PHMorgan: And frankly, I think a lot of folks do it that way because it's quicker than waiting for a tie to be completed
PHChristy: pitbull, doing great, how are you?
MagGot: o [img id=em-5]
pitbull_nr: pretty good
PHChristy: I think a lot of breeders are WAY too hands on with their breedings and whelpings
pitbull_nr: trying to read up on pits a little
PHChristy: control freaks
reggie73: how many times do you allow them to "get together" when you breed them?
PHMorgan: I prefer to just put the dogs out and let them figure it out. Then I supervise during the tie so nobody gets injured
curliousCresteds: is it normal for a male to be totally uninterested in the bitch after the tie is over?
PHChristy: reggie, I really ideally like to let them have as much fun as they want to
PHChristy: curlious, yes, for a while LOL
pitbull_nr: anyone know much about them?
berta: Fro sure and they "schedule" the births too
PHMorgan: A breeding every other day is fine, but if it's convenient, I let them have a blast
PHChristy: pitbull, I've had one and know a fair amount about them. Which pit breed or breeds interest you?
curliousCresteds: my boy was out there for a week, wouldnt look at the bitch after the first tie
PHChristy: Hi again aussie!
PHMorgan: I think Z was bred 6-8 times over a 4 day period her first time. She is er... quite enthusiastic
MagGot: hey aussie
pitbull_nr: american
PHChristy: LOL Morgan, I've had a few of those
reggie73: well they are a "couple" so when i breed them next year i was just going to put them back in their crate together at night
DodgerzBaby: WB Aussie
PHChristy: pitbull, American Pit Bull Terrier?
aussiejack: hey everyone....thought i was entering the show dog chat room
PHMorgan: Solo, on the other hand, would only breed if NOBODY was watching
PHChristy: nice breed but they are a handfull
PHMorgan: Aussie - it's at 10
PHChristy: aussie, that is at 10 PM ET
reggie73: 6 to 8 times in 4 days - my husband should be so lucky - lol
PHChristy: Hi Mow! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?"
berta: Hmmm I had one bitch that I call the shameless wanton hussy
PHChristy: LOL Reggie
pitbull_nr: yea, ive got pit mixed with a bower
pitbull_nr: boxer
PHChristy: my pit was a mix also
aussiejack: ah hah!...okay will check back at 10...hasta la vista
curliousCresteds: Reggie i wouldnt just lock them in their crate together and leave them, I thik they should still be supervised
DodgerzBaby: Hasta leugo!
PHChristy: pitbull, here is her photo: Lita
reggie73: is there more of a danger of her hurting him? i read that if she doesnt want to breed that she could get "ugly"
PHMowgli: hmm brb can't see anyone
PHChristy: oh lord, reggie, yes, they can get hurt
reggie73: so even when i am breeding them they should have different crates for night and when we are gone
PHMorgan: REggie - certainly - supervision is a good idea
PHChristy: reggie, yes
pitbull_nr: little white and grey pup?
PHMowgli: That is better now I can see everyone
MagGot: wb
curliousCresteds: wbb Mowgli
reggie73: brb
PHChristy: pitbull, she was white with large markings in tan and black brindle, very pretty girl
PHChristy: WB Mow
DodgerzBaby: U have a beautiful Pittie
pitbull_nr: think i seen her
PHChristy: thank you... she's gone to the Bridge now
PHChristy: she was a dog I had a long time ago
pitbull_nr: mine is red with a white chest
PHMowgli: ok so what was the concensus on manipulating breedings since I missed half the chat LOL
PHChristy: I breed Scottish Deerhounds, she was a rescue
PHMorgan: Mow - did you have pups???
DodgerzBaby: Aww Im sorry Christy
BarbW: so, what do you think is the percentage of AI being done?
PHChristy: LOL Mowgli... well, Morgan and I tend to agree that it's a matter of WHY you are doing it, rather than WHAT you are doing to get your bitch pregnant
MagGot: well everyone i g2g
MagGot: ttyl bye for now
PHChristy: Barb, that's a great question
PHChristy: night Mag
pitbull_nr: how old do they need to be before you breed them?
PHMorgan: I also think that if your bitch has to be completely hogtied, something is probably not quite right
MagGot: Cheeri-O
DodgerzBaby: Night Mag
PHChristy: I think natural breedings are still in the majority by far
PHChristy: pitbull, at least two years old
SamsSammy: Didn't seem to be a problem. One had to leave, one never showed up, and the other had more trouble than I did.
PHChristy: after you can do all the genetic testing
pitbull_nr: ok
PHMorgan: Most genetic testing requires teh dog to be 2 years of age to be valid, so I would say rule of thumb is at least 2
PHMorgan: I prefer more like 3
SamsSammy: Sorry, folks!
pitbull_nr: i seen a full blooded pit earlier, very pretty dog
PHMowgli: well I have to admit I did an AI saturday cause I am lazy LOL
DodgerzBaby: I luff Pits
PHChristy: pitbull, have you been to our APBT Forum?
pitbull_nr: na, im new at this
curliousCresteds: what is the average cost to have semen frozen?
BarbW: do you think serious bloodline corrections are being made by "going far" to get AI
PHChristy: Here is the link to the APBT Forum
PHMorgan: THEre is usually a fee for the collection and then a fee for the storage which is charged yearly
PHChristy: we also have an APBT Photo Gallery here
PHChristy: Hiya daisy! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?"
reggie73: anybody know of any websites that actually show pictures of a birth? i have some breeders that are going to let me sit in on a few but i want to get a "heads up"
pitbull_nr: any information on them
PHMowgli: Barb I don't go far i just know Eli ties for about a half hour and too lazy to wait LOL
pitbull_nr: ?
PHMorgan: Barb - I think that all depends on the dogs involved. I certainly think things CAN Be helped with it
PHChristy: reggie, I think there are some but I don't know the URLs off the top of my head
daisy_nr: hi everyone
PHChristy: DEFINITELY go sit with your mentors
PHChristy: reggie, are they dachshund breeders?
daisy_nr: I did find sites online
PHMorgan: There is one on shit tzus with nice photos but the information is not so great
daisy_nr: just by doing a general search on welping puppies
PHChristy: LOL Morgan, I'm guessing you typoed that word?
reggie73: yes - one is the breeder that i bought my female from and she has really helped me a lot
PHMorgan: I did
PHMorgan: Bad hostie
daisy_nr: I have delivered horses and kittens
PHChristy: reggie, sounds like you are in excellent hands ... doxies do have some specific problems due to their conformation
PHChristy: Hi, lolo... Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?"
daisy_nr: just delivered my first litter of puppies
PHMowgli: Barb I am one of the people who says three tries and you are out of breeding pool about my dogs if I cannot get pregnant naturally or with a fresh AI then my feeling is they are not meant to have pups
PHChristy: daisy, what breed?
daisy_nr: irish jack russels
daisy_nr: I have an imported bitch
PHMorgan: Congats, Daisy
daisy_nr: bred to an imported stud
curliousCresteds: I think thats a good rule Mow
daisy_nr: thanks
PHChristy: yes, congrats, daisy!
PHMowgli: Congrats daisy
BarbW: Mow....was thinking more along getting away from some bad genes
pitbull_nr: Christy what was your dog mixed with?
reggie73: does it really matter if the male is bigger than the female?
PHChristy: pitbull, we don't honestly know
DodgerzBaby: well I think Id have to do UKC and not compete as much
pitbull_nr: ok
DodgerzBaby: is ther an age limit?
PHChristy: hi emmemay! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?"
PHMorgan: Reggie - so long as they are physicallyo capable of getting it done, but you do want to be somewhat careful in size differences
PHMowgli: crested my feelings are that if they do not take then proably a darn good reason and by my forcing it with surgical implantation then I could be brining in inferior genes to breed
PHChristy: I would want to know WHY she couldn't get pregnant, in case it was something treatable and non-genetic
PHMorgan: I agree, Mow
emmemay_nr: Hello, All.
PHMorgan: Me too
PHMorgan: SOmetimes it's just a timing issue
PHMorgan: I know a woman who owned a bitch who ovulated on the FIRST DAY of her heat cycle (or the first day she SHOWED)
PHMowgli: Barb as an example my last 2 mating have resulted in slime being born or stillborn pups 2 different bitches essentially same breeding
PHChristy: yes ...
PHMorgan: THey missed 3 breedings before they figured it out
emmemay_nr: Anyone ever had a young stud dog go sterile?
reggie73: Stella weighs 7 pounds and is 8 months old and Stanley is 9 pounds and 6 months old (his breeder told me that he would be 7 pounds - but oh well)
PHChristy: I'm all in favor of technology that gives us more information
PHMowgli: therefore that resulting breeding it out no way will I try that again
PHMorgan: sometimes a male or female will have an infection which is treatable that prevented pregnancy - there is no real reason not to try again when they are healthy
PHMowgli: emme yes I did he was 5 and had prostate cancer
PHChristy: exactly
curliousCresteds: reggie wait until they are fully mature, you might find a more stutable stud for your bitch in that time
PHChristy: yes, reggie, they're too young to know for sure if they are right for each other
PHChristy: always breed the best bitch you can get to the best stud you can find
PHMorgan: YOu need to see wha tyou are looking at and what your bitch needs - he might be a great guy but not right for HER
curliousCresteds: yep, not the cheapest or closest stud
PHChristy: and since usually we can't start out with a really top bitch, but we CAN find a really top stud, that's what we should look for
emmemay_nr: When you found out he was sterile, what did you do? My vet said wait a couple of mos. and try again.
reggie73: i am absolutely in love with my female - she is a black and tan dapple - just beautiful - with a wonderful demeanor
PHMowgli: not saying it is also your problem emme just to let you know what happened
PHChristy: yes, being a good stud is dependent on how the two of them mesh genetically
PHMowgli: emme we did same thing we pulled him every 3 mnths for a year there was no sign of his cancer then
PHChristy: a good stud for your bitch not just a popular or top winning stud
PHMorgan: I know of a LOVELY top producing stud who only produced crap out of one line of dogs - no matter how good the bitch was or how she'd produced
reggie73: i purposely bought a solid color who didnt carry dapple so i wouldnt get the lethal double dapple gene
PHChristy: reggie, that's a good start but there is SO much more to consider
emmemay_nr: I am not comfortable with just sitting around doing nothing, but don't want to do stuff just for the sake of doing it though
BarbW: gorgeous does not necesarrily produce gorgeous
PHMowgli: he remained sterile so opted to nueter at that time we biopsied and found cancer
curliousCresteds: reggie colour is only one factor oyu need to consider
PHChristy: we're not saying he won't be right for her, just that it's too soon to know
PHMorgan: HOpefully your breeder can help you figure out what else you need to know about dachsies before breeding - that's what a good breeder is there for - to help new folks get startedc
PHChristy: hi hopelabs! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?"
PHMowgli: emme my vet had said it could be temperature or stress many things can cause sterility and we needed to just wait to see
PHMorgan: HOpefully they would share information and get you started on the right track
reggie73: oh yes - she has been wonderful - she has answered most of my questions but i dont want to keep bothering her all of the time
PHChristy: there is nothing better than a mentor for new breeders, if you can find a good one who wants to work with you, that's the most valuable thing you can get in the dog fancy
lolo1_nr: This is the first time I have been to this chat. how do you get a icon?
emmemay_nr: How long before you retest?
curliousCresteds: reggie a good breeder will want you to bother her!
PHChristy: lolo, click on the little blue and yellow image to the left of where you type your text and pick one of them :)
curliousCresteds: I bother my breeder almost daily lol
PHMorgan: Double click on your littke yellow & blue man next to the box where you type and choose one
PHMowgli: emme we retested every 3 mnths cause it takes 55 days for a sperm cell to develope
reggie73: shes actually upset that she sold STella to me - she was planning on retiring when she found a full time teaching job but she didnt - now she regrets selling her to me
PHMowgli: and when your vet says sterile is there no sperm or just low sperm?
PHChristy: LOL reggie, well, that's a nice thing!
PHMorgan: REggie - hopefully she will be HAPPY to work with you then, so she can maybe have a puppy.... hehehe
reggie73: i know - she offered to buy her back but i said no way - lol
PHMowgli: low motility low viability what is definition of sterile
emmemay_nr: Did you put him on antibiotics or anything? We were in for an AI and got good size collection but said most sperm were dead or bent tails.
reggie73: it made me feel good about my choice
PHMorgan: :-D
curliousCresteds: Reggie have you tried showing her yet?
PHChristy: I had a bitch the breeder regretted selling
PHMowgli: ok emme we had no sperm at all
PHMorgan: Me too
PHChristy: the consequence was the next time I bought a puppy from her she insisted on a co-ownership
PHMorgan: LOL
PHMowgli: no antibiotics just adjusted his food and vit e oil and salmon oil
reggie73: i have never considered showing her
PHChristy: he turned out to have a genetic defect that required a very expensive surgery, so we couldn't breed from him and she had to cough up half the money. She said, "I can't win."
PHMorgan: Oh dear
PHMowgli: we did blood panel and he showed no signs of infection so did not ue antibiotics
PHChristy: reggie ... all good breeders prove their dogs in an objective venue of some kind before breeding them, and for dachshunds that's almost always got to be the show ring
curliousCresteds: aw thats unfortunate for her Christy
PHChristy: reggie, does your breeder not show her dogs?
PHMorgan: DOn't dachsies have earthdog trials?
PHMowgli: or that earthdog thing christy
reggie73: i am in a very small town in oklahoma
PHChristy: Morgan, I don't know... if they do then I'd say that was also fine.
PHMowgli: yeah morgan GMTA LOL
curliousCresteds: reggie there aer dog shows all over the place!
reggie73: she does show hers but she is nearly four hours away
PHChristy: reggie, that doesn't matter. If you are going to show your dogs you MUST prove them first.
PHChristy: I mean, if you are going to breed your dogs
PHChristy: four hours is NOTHING
lolo1_nr: Ok I think I am ready to go now.Thank you for the help
PHChristy: I consider that a local show
PHChristy: night lolo!
PHChristy: thanks for coming!
curliousCresteds: I drove 9hrs last weekend!
curliousCresteds: for a 1 day show
curliousCresteds: lol
PHMowgli: 4 hrs is a local show
PHChristy: hi trav! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?"
curliousCresteds: oh and got dumped as well, lmao
PHMowgli: friday I drove 6 hrs then saturday 2 hours then sunday 8 hours LOL
reggie73: she is AKC - does their site list dog shows ?
PHMorgan: AG
PHChristy: when you breed, you are making a serious committment ot the future of your breed, you have to take it seriously and prove yourself
PHMorgan: I got to do the local shows this weeken d- 1/2 hour away
PHMowgli: hey trav
PHChristy: reggie, they are listed by state at www.infodog.com
curliousCresteds: www.infodog.com is the best for looking up local shows
PHMorgan: Dumped Saturday, Mr. Duncan got his 2nd major Sunday......
PHMowgli: and we pooped out did not qualify
PHChristy: LOL curlious!
PHMorgan: ARG
curliousCresteds: great minds!
PHChristy: reggie, if she shows and wanted your bitch back to much she tried to buy her back, I suggest you get her out there!
PHChristy: congrats on the second major!
PHMowgli: WooHoo Mister Duncan!!!! Congrats
PHMorgan: THanks. He's 3/4 done I guess now but still needs 7 single
PHMorgan: He's a good boy
reggie73: i feel kind of ashamed that i have never even thought about it - lol
curliousCresteds: singles should be a piece of cake!
PHMorgan: And it's REALLY hard with liver - a lot of judges don't care for that color
PHMorgan: Reggie - there's a TON to learn when you get "into" dogs
PHChristy: reggie, I'm wondering why the BREEDER didn't suggest it, INSIST on it in fact
PHChristy: hi again emmemay!
PHMowgli: WB emme
curliousCresteds: i got news from AKC that my boy aquired 2pts since he was RWD, WD was disqualified for something after the fact
reggie73: maybe that was why she wanted her back - lol
PHChristy: when I sell a nice puppy, I force the puppy buyers to show the dogs LOL
PHChristy: curlious, that's a nice windfall!
PHMowgli: wow crested I never luck out like that LOL
emmemay_nr: darn yahoo!
PHChristy: I always saved all my reserve ribbons until my dog finished, just in case
PHMorgan: Curlious - that is kewl
curliousCresteds: it was nice! but unnecessary, he finished with his last major 15pts on the nose
PHMowgli: christy i still have all my ribbons a big box full
curliousCresteds: so now hes got 2 extra points he doesnt need lol
PHMowgli: I am going to make each dog a quilt of their ribbons for x-mas this year
curliousCresteds: good idea Mow, I was thinking of doing that
emmemay_nr: So what do you guys do with your old ribons? I got a plastic bag full
curliousCresteds: one for CKC and one for AKC ribbons
PHChristy: I don't keep them
curliousCresteds: iv got mine pinned up on my wall inmy room
PHMowgli: I am doing one of those iron on pics of the dog in middle with ribbons all around
PHChristy: once I get the championship certificate I toss them. Unless it's a really big one LOL
bossanovabassets: Hi everyone..
PHMorgan: I keep them for about a year then ditch them. YOu never know when you might need them to prove you won
emmemay_nr: ribbon walpaper?
curliousCresteds: have a lot of rosettes, a lot of CKC shows give rosettes for BOB/BPOB
PHChristy: or from a specialty or something
PHChristy: hey there bossanova!!!
PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is "Getting Them Pregnant: How Far Is Too Far?"
PHMorgan: I keep most of the rosettes
PHChristy: I like the rosettes
PHChristy: of course, the biggest ones are from matches LOL
PHMowgli: I have hardly any rosettes a ton of stupid folding chairs though LOL
curliousCresteds: last year we got a lot of BOB rosettes since we were the only entry haha
bossanovabassets: I must have missed the topic talk...
PHChristy: I love those ones the size of dinner plates with streamers six feet long you get at matches
PHChristy: LOL bossa yes, we're talking about show ribbons now ...
bossanovabassets: Yep....I keep envelopes for each dog with their ribbons in them.
PHMowgli: oh i am bad I started this ribbon talk LOL
PHChristy: LOL Mowgli
PHChristy: yes, let's go back to the topic....
curliousCresteds: ive only got the one show dog right now so its easy to keep them straight
PHMorgan: I have a huge drawer full of them
emmemay_nr: I was always going to make a quilt wall hanging but never got around to it
reggie73: thats okay - i have been askin g"off the wall " questions all night
PHMorgan: But I've got 10 champions so far
PHMowgli: Awesome Morgan!!
bossanovabassets: I'm stil new enough to the show ring...that I haven't finished one yet.....but I have two now that will finish...
PHMorgan: Bassanova - I think we've agreed that artificial means are OK so long as the dogs ARE capable of doing the deed.... LOL
PHMowgli: by the way did everyone see my new avatar this week???
bossanovabassets: My boy has finally grown up enough to do well.
PHMorgan: Yeah - been doing this a while. TOok me 10 years to get to 10...... LOL
PHChristy: we should have a topic sometime about how far is too far to go in saving puppies
PHChristy: along the same lines
PHMorgan: I think we did that one
PHChristy: maybe so
PHMorgan: It was depressing.... :-(
PHMorgan: But a good topic, nonetheless
PHMowgli: yeah real depressing though
curliousCresteds: where are the archives kept for these chats? i found one the other day from last year about kennel maintenance
PHChristy: we've had some great topics, I was just looking at the transcripts this morning and I was really impressed with us
reggie73: my parents raised bassets for years and lost a whole litter of 13
PHMorgan: WOw that is awful
bossanovabassets: Good idea Christy.....I went to heroic measures to get my first show bitch pg....consulted with Dr. Hutch...did the Cheque drops thing...all to no avail.
PHMowgli: and every time I lose a pup I struggle with I say I will not intervene again and each time I do
PHMorgan: I know someone who lost all but 1 in a litter of 14
PHMorgan: That was AWFUL
PHChristy: they are at http://www.doghobbyist.com/DogBreeding.html
bossanovabassets: Ouch.....I have only ever lost one puppy..
bossanovabassets: knock on wood.
reggie73: it was the strangest thing - they actually got parvo from sod that was laid in our yard
curliousCresteds: i couldnt imagine having 14!
PHMorgan: I find myself ALWAYS intervening.... I just can't let them go without a fight, but those pups are never bred
reggie73: they were not happy about it
PHChristy: oh man, reggie, that's awful
curliousCresteds: a crested having 14 would be quite the sight i think
PHMorgan: Me either - you shoulda seen the bitch - 8it was a greyhound - make that KILLER WHALE
PHMowgli: right Morgan
PHChristy: Morgan, me too... that would be my approach as well
PHChristy: I can't let them die if I can save them and that's just how it is
PHMowgli: although almost always if it is more than extra milk I will lose them no matter what I do
PHMorgan: I cna't either
reggie73: thats another thing that worries me - litter size - what determines it?
PHMowgli: usually it is PDA if I lose one
bossanovabassets: Karma??? LOL
BarbW: christy...why would gettin off to a bad start be a reason for not breeding?
PHMorgan: Reggie - it's really up to the bitch. She's the one who controls how many eggs are released. There is always a HUMONGOUS surplus of sperm.....
BarbW: assuming it was not congenital defects that is
PHMowgli: BarbW if they needed that much intervention there is probably a genetic defect
PHMorgan: Barb - I want MY breeding stock to be EXTREMELY vigorous and healthy
PHMorgan: You might not know WHY a puppy isn't thriving, but often it's something you don't want to share with future generations. To me, that's fair, altho I surely think that puppy deserves a chance to live, if not to reproduce.
PHMowgli: I think there are a ton more defects than we know because they cannot be seen nor tested for
reggie73: does the past litter size of her mother give any indication of her litter sizes?
PHMorgan: IT's better to look at parents and siblings.
curliousCresteds: sometimes, sometimes not
PHMorgan: But often bitches with larger litters will have larger ones again - altho the size usually decreases as the bitch ages
PHChristy: If I know a puppy had a non-genetic problem, then I would breed them if they were otherwise healthy, normal, etc
bossanovabassets: My last litter all came breech, all sacks broke up inside.. I had to reach inside and get them out.....all were healthy..all but one show quality..and in show homes.
curliousCresteds: the bitch my boy was bred to had 7 last time, looks like 4 this time
PHChristy: if I am not sure, I'd err on the side of safety
PHMorgan: Z's first litter was 10, second was 7.... ALtho I Konw of a 9 year old who was bred and had 13
PHChristy: the thing is, you usually DON'T know
PHMowgli: I had 10 in a 5 year old first breeding
PHChristy: and health and vigor are SUCH a focus of my breeding program
PHMowgli: 7 live
PHMorgan: Every bitch is different
reggie73: i am just worried because the breeder that i bought my male from said that if there are only one or two puppies they get really big and hard to deliver
PHMorgan: THat can happen
PHChristy: which I'm now starting over from scratch since it tuns out my lines are full of this kidney defect
PHChristy: reggie, yes, that's true. Are these minis?
bossanovabassets: Ouch...Christy.
PHMorgan: I've had singleton litters and those pups were HUGE
PHChristy: and yet my one singleton was tiny
PHMowgli: christy do you have any particular dog or bitch in mind you are looking at?
PHChristy: there are rules, and then there are exceptions
PHMorgan: COurse, in Z's litter of 10, most were 17 and 18 ounces.... Talk about KILLER WHALES
bossanovabassets: I have one with a Kidney problem caused by a voracious infection early on.....pick puppy too....so sad.
reggie73: yes - they are minis - 8 to 12 pound range
PHChristy: Mowgli, I am on the list for my bitch puppy
PHMorgan: Hey - congrats
PHChristy: I selected the breeder I want
PHMorgan: When mmight this be happening?
PHMowgli: Great Christy!!!
PHChristy: I am guessing next summer
reggie73: but then i also worry about too many - she had a dog give birth to 11 once
curliousCresteds: 11 mini dachies?
reggie73: that cant look good on a weiner dog - lol
PHMorgan: YOu definitely need to be prepared for a large litter
reggie73: yes
PHMowgli: Wow reggie bet she made a million dollars off that litter just to get a dog pregnant and to carry litter and whelp LOL
PHMowgli: Sorry I couldn't resist one thing you learn right off is a female is a bitch and a male is a dog so if a dog is prgnant you are a miracle worker LOL
reggie73: sorry i forgot that you guys speak in breeder terms - i need to learn to say dog and bitch
reggie73: got it
PHMowgli: I was just teasing Reggie
PHMorgan: We're just messing with ya, REggie
PHMorgan: :-)
curliousCresteds: hehehe
PHMorgan: STOP READING MY MIND< MOW
PHMorgan: She does this to me ALL THE TIME
PHChristy: I want to thank everyone who came to Dog Breeding chat tonight! Please be sure to join us next week too! I'll now turn over the chat to PHMowgli for SHOWDOG CHAT!
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