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Transcript: Dog Breeding Chat Tuesday, Nov. 1, 2005: Working with Co-owners PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Working with Co-owners! PHChristy: Hi there wbo! laura82004_nr: um yea Clicker59: Hi everybody PHChristy: My ideal co-owner lets me make all the decisions but they pay all the bills, LOL Rueger: Christy does strangling them count as working with them? PHChristy: Rue, only if you're in the will Clicker59: Rue LOL Rueger: oh dang I guess I gotta think my plans then LOL PHMorgan: I have a few of those, Christy PHMorgan: I am not always sure it's a good deal since then you get all the blame PHChristy: who put you in the will, Morgan, or who pay the bills? Dab8_nr: how old is every one in here? laura82004_nr: 26 Clicker59: Oh no PHChristy: I am too much of a control freak for co-owning. I've done it, but it isn't smooth. Rueger: my last two co-owners have been great they do as I recommend but they also put a lot of study and thought and work into the dogs Rueger: hey Val PHChristy: hi there Val! PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Working with Co-owners! PHValkyrie: hi Clicker59: Christie I am not a Dog Co-Owner Dab8_nr: who has adog Clicker59: Dab we all do laura82004_nr: what are signs of labor PHMorgan: I think it's important to be realistic about co-owning. You have to keep in mind that whoever the dog LIVES with usually feels the dog is a family member. PHChristy: I have dogs, Dab ... our topic right now is Dog Breeding chat, and working with co-owners. Rueger: I prefer to not do many co-ownerships myself I think so many can end up being a nightmare PHMorgan: THis concept must temper all discussions regarding the dog Dab8_nr: wut kind Clicker59: I am not the Co-Owner Dog Type PHMorgan: Whenever I put a dog on a co-ownership, I put ANY expectations I have about the dog IN WRITING. And I keep in mind that I might have to give up on those expectations PHMorgan: Laura - what was your question - you never said after you mentioned your dog was possibly starting labor PHChristy: laura, about 24 hours before she whelps, her temparature will drop dramatically. You need to start taking it several times a day about a week before you think she's due. laura82004_nr: her temp is 99.4 PHChristy: Hi, Doggy! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Working with Co-owners! PHChristy: Laura, what is her normal temperature? laura82004_nr: 100.8 DOGGY_nr: HI EVERY1 Dab8_nr: hi PHMorgan: Usually once the temp has come down and STAYED down for 12 hours, the bitch will whelp within the next day Rueger: isn't 100.8 rather low for a normal temp? PHValkyrie: It's average. PHChristy: it usually goes down more than that, IME PHMorgan: Has she eaten today? How is her behavior? PHMorgan: Mne usually go down to about 98 laura82004_nr: yea she is eating she just acts really tired PHMorgan: THat's normal - she's storing up energy for the "big job" PHChristy: what breed, what age, is this is her first litter? DOGGY_nr: WHAT KIND OF DOG YOU GOT Rueger: doggy turn off your caps lock laura82004_nr: the last time i took her temp you could see her uterine contracting alot this is her 2 litter she is 4 DOGGY_nr: ok srry laura82004_nr: staffashire pitbull Dab8_nr: i have a chihuahua PHMorgan: OK so it looks like she might be going anytime DOGGY_nr: cool Rueger: shelties and a smooth collie PHMorgan: Got your coffee, your whelping books, a comfy seat and the phone numbers handy? laura82004_nr: yea Rueger: hey rouen PHChristy: Hi, Rouen! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Working with Co-owners! DOGGY_nr: i hava chihuahua 2 PHMorgan: I found having a beach chair in the whelping room helps with my back (when I'm not actually IN THE BOX with momdog) laura82004_nr: im just really nervous she is my baby PHChristy: laura, you mean an American Staffordshire terrier? Rouen: hi everyone DOGGY_nr: hi PHMorgan: IT's always scary, even when it's not her first time! laura82004_nr: yea Rouen: anyone mind if I brag a little bit? Dab8_nr: an PHChristy: ga Rouen Rueger: rouen what did dingo do? laura82004_nr: what are some signs that she could be having a problem PHMorgan: I think it's important when working with co-owners to have common goals for the dog from the get-go. Just because something is in writing doesnt mean it's gonig to happen Rouen: Dingo graduated his class tonight Rouen: http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php?photo=246049 Rueger: oh congrats rouen!! PHChristy: laura, if this is her second litter, I'm not understanding what you don't already know these things? Dab8_nr: do you have any female doggy PHMorgan: Straining and pushing hard for more than 2 hours without a puppy Clicker59: I have a ? what can I do to entertained Dutchie for 3 days since we are putting up french doors & it will trake 3 days Rouen: thanks rue PHMorgan: Puppy stuck for more than 20 minutes PHChristy: this is the kind of basic information that you would expect to already have, before you even breed ONCE Rueger: right Morgan lots of things can happen to change initial plans PHMorgan: Any green discharge before the first puppy DOGGY_nr: who are you talking to dab8 Clicker59: Rouen cool Dab8_nr: u laura82004_nr: we didnt have her in the house last time she seems fine i guess im just freaking DOGGY_nr: i have a girl Rueger: oh rouen he got big LOL PHChristy: well, it's true that reproduction can be hazardous, you're very smart to be concerned. :) Dab8_nr: u do i have male PHMorgan: Well, it's much better to have her indoors wher eyou can watch her PHChristy: you're being a good dog mom to worry about her laura82004_nr: good Rouen: lol, rue DOGGY_nr: cool Rouen: he's only 30-ish lbs laura82004_nr: thank u very much Rueger: rouen he actually looks like an adult though Dab8_nr: is it nudered PHMorgan: Anybody got some nice horror stories about co-ownerships that we can learn from? Rouen: he's gonna be a year old on the 26th rue DOGGY_nr: no Rueger: Morgan I do LOL Rouen: he's all gorwn up now PHChristy: I don't really have any horror stories... I did have to strongarm a co-owner once to get her to pay her share of a vet bill. PHChristy: She was the breeder and had refused to sell the dog outright. I told her that was her punishment LOL Dab8_nr: can they doggy date some time DOGGY_nr: yea PHMorgan: Fair enough PHChristy: but overall, I've avoided most co-ownerships PHMorgan: I don't push my co-owners around much PHMorgan: It's an "in name only" deal most of the time. PHChristy: I co-own all my dogs with my mom, actual.y, but I don't count that as we see eye to eye on the dogs at all times PHChristy: Morgan, yes, exactly. Rueger: I bought a male on a co-ownership, he was a gorgeous pup of course he was supposed to be perfect finish championship easily blah blah blah but he got too big and the stupid co-owner said the contract says he is to be shown so he must be even though oversize is a DQ in my breed Dab8_nr: cool PHMorgan: I might have some "wishes" for the dog, but in the end, if the folks the dog lives with don't wanna come thru, at least the dog has a great home PHValkyrie: Why does a breeder chose co-ownership? Is there a benefit for all 3? Rueger: I had to show him enough times to ge a permanent DQ in order to make her sign off so he could be placed in pet home Dab8_nr: how old are you doggy PHMorgan: I think for the buyer it can show belief and support in the potential of the dog, and for the breeder, it's another CH that they own PHChristy: Val, in her case, she wanted to be able to use him at stud without my permission. PHChristy: she knows how irritatingly PICKY I am, LOL PHMorgan: And of course there can be agreed upon benefits like breeding rights, puppies back, etc. Rueger: now that was my first co-ownership thus I try to not be too pushy on showing and such if I sell on a co-ownership DOGGY_nr: 16 PHMorgan: Me too, Rueger PHValkyrie: How does it benefit the dog, though? PHChristy: Val, well, it would depend on the situation. Dab8_nr: what is her name DOGGY_nr: baby PHChristy: Sometimes having a powerful or well-known co-owner can benefit a dog's breeding or show career PHMorgan: The dog gets a home with usually fewer dogs to compete with for attention, rather than piling up in the breeder's home PHChristy: Hi, Tiger! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Working with Co-owners! Rueger: Val it can allow a dog who is really good and you may not have room for to be in show and or breeding home PHMorgan: Which becomes quite a big deal when you think about someone like me who has 8 dogs PHChristy: but in the meantime they can live with their OTHER owner and be more of a pet Tiger_nr: what :( PHMorgan: They all have to compete for attention, training, bed space.... LOL PHValkyrie: I see. PHValkyrie: Thanks. Tiger_nr: i dont get it PHChristy: Tiger, what don't you get? :) PHMorgan: I have placed several extremely nice pups on co-ownerships because you simply cannot keep all of them Tiger_nr: what you are talking about PHChristy: Co-ownerships are when more than one person is the listed owner of a dog. Clicker59: Later on after this chat can somebody Check to see if my Commet on Roue's Pic turned up in PhoTO Gallery? PHMorgan: Or, I've done a breeding, the stud owner wanted a puppy, and there was ONE PHMorgan: So we co-own Rueger: and if you have large dogs it really is a huge benefit to breeder for future breedings too without the extra expense Dab8_nr: thats my sisters dogs name PHMorgan: But usually the dog lives primarily with ONE of those people PHChristy: Usually it's the breeder who keeps his or her name on the dog, but the dog also belongs to someone else, with whom they live PHChristy: sometimes two breeders own a dog together for paperwork purposes Rouen: it's there clicker Tiger_nr: what is a co-owner DOGGY_nr: cool Clicker59: Rouen Thanks Rueger: tiger that was just explained PHMorgan: For some breeders, you can't get a really good dog unless you are willing to co-own - the breeders won't let them go without "sharing" PHChristy: On a dog's registration papers, there are spaces for owners ... if there is more than one, they are co-owners PHMorgan: A lot of my co-owners are flattered that I like THEIR puppy enough to want to co-won DOGGY_nr: r u a girl or boy dab PHChristy: other than me, Morgan, and Rouen, who in this room is a dog breeder? PHChristy: oh, and wbo :) Rueger: me PHChristy: I meant you, Rue! PHChristy: typed Rouen by mistake :) Clicker59: Christie you know I leave it up to you professionals PHMorgan: And sometimes breeders will co-own a dog that the owners want to show, in order to control breeding of that dog PHChristy: OK, those of you who are just here for general chat, why don't you head into the Dog House instead? It's unhosted open dog chat 24/7. PHMorgan: If it's a female, ANY and ALL co-owners have to sign off on any breedings. PHMorgan: So, if you are a breeder and want some control over how your girls are bred, you migth choose to co-own PHChristy: right, but if it's a male, only one. I hate that. Tiger_nr: ok i feel bumb know PHChristy: Tiger, I'm sure you are not dumb at all. :) Clicker59: Christie I am interested in Learning this to understabnd it PHMorgan: Nah - it's not a common thing with dog folks PHMorgan: Mostly show folks do it Tiger_nr: DUMB* PHChristy: Clicker, you are very welcome to stay ... I only meant if people wanted to have a general chat they could do it in the Dog House. No one has to leave. :) Tiger_nr: brb PHMorgan: IF the dog is going to be spayed or neutered and spend his time ONLY being a super companion, there's no need for the breeder to co-own Clicker59: Christie I figured that LOL Rueger: ok Morgan how do your prospective co-owners feel about you also owning their dog? PHChristy: I think many times a puppy buyer is flattered, as Morgan said Dab8_nr: whats ur race doggy PHChristy: but sometimes they don't understand it. I've had people email me or talk to me in chats about how weird they thought it was that the breeder wanted to keep strings ona dog. Breeders need to explain it better sometimes, I think DOGGY_nr: white Dab8_nr: be back 2 min PHChristy: I do sometimes wonder why some breeders are doing it, though PHValkyrie: Sounds like a good way to groom "apprentice" breeders. PHMorgan: Most of mine don't mind. If they do, I just dont do it PHChristy: val, it is Rueger: that is why I was asking Christy I had one person who wanted a show prospect that I was intially giong to keep myself but I offered to place him on a co-ownership and they thought I just wanted to be able to keep them under my thumb til I explained it all PHChristy: however .... PHMorgan: It's voluntary PHChristy: Morgan, I imagine you explain it well PHMorgan: I let them talk to the other folks I co-own with PHMorgan: And I put in writing that they are not required to show or breed the dog PHChristy: Morgan, do you like to co-own all dogs you breed? PHMorgan: But that if they choose to breed, I have input Rueger: yes Morgan me too and that makes a huge difference PHValkyrie: Does the buyer get any sort of "discount" compared to a puppy that will not be co-owned? PHMorgan: Not all. As many of the show prospects as I comfortably can - meaning as many as folks are wiling to let me PHMorgan: NOPE Rueger: I prefer to not co-own except in the rare case PHMorgan: Because for me, nothing in particular is required Dab8_nr: hi im back Clicker59: Rue I am not in to co-owning PHMorgan: So I'm not getting anything out of it except some paper DOGGY_nr: WUTz UR NAME DAB Tiger_nr: hey sorry i have not talked mush but i gtg bye Dab8_nr: no PHMorgan: I probably co-own 10-15 of my puppies Rueger: Val I think that depends on breeder I will let a pup for pet price on a co-ownership if it is a show/breeding dog but if i feel the dog is a pet it goes spay neuter PHChristy: Morgan, I'm only curious, but why? PHMorgan: Out of say, a total of 30 or so produced PHChristy: I honestly don't have a problem with it, I'm just wondering. Rueger: I co-own 3 pups out of about 40 PHMorgan: Mostly because if it's a show bitch, I do NOT want them to be able to breed to just any old stud they choose PHMorgan: Any males I co-own it's for breeding rights Clicker59: You all know how I feel about Spaying & Neutring PHMorgan: Those are the main reasons. PHChristy: that makes sense PHMorgan: I don't require them to breed the girls, but if they do, I want some say in who they use PHMorgan: I don't always use the boys, but I want to be ABLE to if I choose PHChristy: have you regretted a co-ownership ever? Rueger: I typically co-own with a novice who wants to get into my breed but does not want the full contract must show must breed to such and such a stud at age 3 and many breeders of my breed require that for a show prospect from a novice PHMorgan: And I don't want to pay a stud fee, altho I ALWAYS do PHMorgan: No, and a few times I've been sorry I didn't PHChristy: yes, that's why my dog's breeder kept her name on him, however, she also wanted to say "yes" to bitches I wouldn't have approved. PHChristy: Hi there hanah! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Working with Co-owners! PHMorgan: Once when a puppy of mine got dumped at the handlers for 18 months, and I didn't co-own, so I couldn't take the dog from her PHChristy: Rueger, yes, I've seen those. In the more popular breeds. Dab8_nr: Aschlea PHValkyrie: How do you "divy" up co-ownership? PHChristy: Morgan, yes, that's a very definite reason to co own Clicker59: Morgan I am not in to Breeding I would prefer to leave it up to you Professionals PHChristy: Val, sometimes there's a contract but it's often undefined, and with serious show people it can get nasty PHMorgan: It's different for every person, but 9 times out of 10, it's all about breeding and the dog lives with the "non-breeder" person in the deal Rueger: Val bascially in my eyes I am the breeder and mentor I am there to help guide and recommend PHChristy: Esp since AKC doesn't require the signature of all owners to breed a male PHChristy: which I am bitterly against PHChristy: Hello lil animal gurl! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Working with Co-owners! Clicker59: Hi Animal Dab8_nr: hi Rueger: I agree Christy if all sign on females should on males too PHMorgan: ALtho with some of my co-owners the dogs do go back and forth - say if the breeder is helping to show it, or with me, one of my co-owners has a huge farm and I will send her dogs for 2-3 months for conditioning if I'm having trouble PHMorgan: I agree, Reuger PHMorgan: 100% PHChristy: that's a nice arrangement lil_animal_gurl: I don't know a whole lot about dogs... but i just got a new dog over the weekend Rueger: hey Ruff PHChristy: Hi there Ruffers! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Working with Co-owners! PHChristy: lil animal, congratulations on your new dog. PHMorgan: It's super. If I have a young dog who need exercise in winter, I ship them off to MOnica's. She treats them as well as I do, keeps them in the house and gets some nice muscle on them durng the months when it's hard for me to get them out PHMorgan: What kind, Lil? lil_animal_gurl: she's a pretty white lab, yellow if you're picky
RuffersRule: Hi Rue, Click
PHMorgan: I like those "white" colored labs - they are very pretty with their dark eyes
PHMorgan: Yep, Reuger, it's great for them
lil_animal_gurl: she may have worms, tho. :(
PHMorgan: I swear my Tucker really would rather live there.... LOL
PHMorgan: THat's easily taken care of - when is her first vet visit?
PHChristy: well, lil animal gurl, sounds like you need to take her to the vet. :)
lil_animal_gurl: I'm having my friend do a fecal float on her tomorrow. we're vet tech students
PHMorgan: Lots of puppies have worms - a few treatments and youa re all set
PHMorgan: Ah - so you know!
Clicker59: Rule Hi
lil_animal_gurl: she's not a puppy, tho. she's at least a year old
lil_animal_gurl: but the shelter had no history on her since she wa brought in as a stray
PHChristy: why do you think she has worms?
Dab8_nr: u no doggy is my siter
lil_animal_gurl: my friend found a worm in her poop while walking her
PHChristy: Hi, MiniSch! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! Our topic tonight is Working with Co-owners!
Clicker59: Sounds like she needs to be cheched by a vet & be treated
Rueger: Morgan have you ever had a problem with a co-owner either a dog you bought or sold?
lil_animal_gurl: and she has a bit of a big belly, at first we thought she was pregnant but we did an ultrasound on her today and didn't find any puppies
PHMorgan: NOPE
Clicker59: Rue have you?
PHMorgan: I woudl also check her for anemia
PHMorgan: Just in case
Rueger: oh lucky it must just my breed that is greedy LOL
MiniSch_nr: No, have only co-owned one bitch and the folks were wonderful to work with.
Rueger: Loo yes I was the buyer and co-owner in the deal
lil_animal_gurl: we'll be doing the float on her tomorrow so I don't need to take her to the vet to find out what kind of worms they are. but depending on the kind of worm they may be hard to get rid of
PHMorgan: But again, if you think about my expectations of my co-owners, it's hard to have an issue when you have no particular requirements. I've had some things not turn out as I'd like, but I don't consider them problems
Clicker59: Rue YIKES & How did that end?
RuffersRule: Hi Clicik
Clicker59: Rule Hi
Rueger: Morgan exactly which is why I work as you do with any dog I place on co-owernship plus I had my situation LOL
PHChristy: well, lil animal gurl, I hope your new dog turns out to be a real joy to you, and her health problems aren't serious. :)
Rueger: it worked out fine in the end Loo
Clicker59: Rue good
lil_animal_gurl: she's actually a gift for my mom :)
Dab8_nr: bey
lil_animal_gurl: and she's definitely not anemic. she never acts anemic
Clicker59: Rue we need to talk later on
Rueger: I wonder where all the rotti folk are tonight
lil_animal_gurl: but she's a really sweet dog. and she passed the most important test of all- the cat test.
MiniSch_nr: What would you include in a co-ownership agreement?
RuffersRule: that is important lil
lil_animal_gurl: I'm a hardcore cat fanatic and have 2 of them at home with my mom, so her being okay around cats is a MUST
Clicker59: Is there any way you can get that treated?
Rueger: Mini everything both sides expect from the deal
PHMorgan: Hiya, Wiches
Clicker59: Hi Wiches
MiniSch_nr: I want to put one of my 6 month old males out on a co-ownership - where basically he lives with them, I show him and I retain breeding rights.
Wiches_nr: Hi!
MiniSch_nr: I want control over all breeding decisions.
PHChristy: Hi Wiches!!! LTNS!
lil_animal_gurl: I'm glad i got her, tho. I've never been a huge fan of dogs but i really like her
PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! We're discussing co-ownership.
PHChristy: Mini, I think that is a good arrangement, good for the dog AND you
Wiches_nr: Hi Christy!
PHChristy: Hi, ode2!! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! We're discussing co-ownership.
ode2adream: hello:)
Rueger: mini you would have to spell out who pays entries also you would from my understanding to make the contract legal be giving them something of equal value to what you are taking
Rueger: hi ode
RuffersRule: Hi ode!
ode2adream: hiya :)
MiniSch_nr: Problem is finding a pet home and is willing to keep him intact and maintain furnishings. I don't expect them to pay for any of the show costs.
PHMorgan: My co-owners pay show costs, even if I show the dog
PHChristy: in coated breeds I can see it
PHChristy: for instance, poodles! Oy!
ode2adream: lol
Clicker59: Hi Ode
ode2adream: hiya clicker :)
Rueger: hey ode
PHChristy: can you imagine sending a poodle to a pet home and expecting them to keep it in show coat?
ode2adream: hiya Rueger :)
PHChristy: Hi, doubleB! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! We're discussing co-ownership.
MiniSch_nr: My main concern is having someone where he can live and have love. I want to show him, and in return they get grooming, training and hopefully a champion.
Rueger: christy that would be a problem
doubleB: hi
MiniSch_nr: When I co-owned before, I saw the dog once a week for grooming.
Wiches_nr: I am glad to see that there are some decent contracts out there. Some can be very one way!
Rueger: hi emme
PHChristy: to me, love is the first criterion of a good home
RuffersRule: Hi double + emme
MiniSch_nr: and show training .
PHChristy: hi there emmemay! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! We're discussing co-ownership.
Clicker59: Hy Emme
RuffersRule: can I ask what a Pet home is Christy?
MiniSch_nr: they were wonderful - they even came to the conformation classes and helped train her.
doubleB: how is everyond?
emmemay_nr: Hi everyone! I love co owning!
ode2adream: I'd rather see a dog in a loving home..even if it is show quality.
Rueger: emme how is that pup I picked doing?
PHMorgan: That's really great, Mini
PHChristy: doubleB, doing great, how about you?
PHMorgan: WB Dab
PHChristy: Hello again, Dab.
Clicker59: Hi Dab WB
emmemay_nr: Whoops, not sure who you picked! LOL
PHChristy: emmemay, can you tell us some of your experiences with co-ownership?
doubleB: ok, i keep missing all the good dog chats, this is the first time i remembered to make it here on the right day!
PHMorgan: I think most co-ownerships work fine so long as you are HONEST about your expectations
Clicker59: Emme LOL
MiniSch_nr: Yes, it worked really well when I did it before, but the folks were very motivated.
Rueger: me either but it won in first match or show LOL
RuffersRule: so the dog stays in two places?
doubleB: i'm not too sure about co-owning, from what i've heard from people who have done it, they haven't made out too well or had too much of a positive experience
Rueger: hey fritz
emmemay_nr: OH, my little Bunnnie! She is naked as a jaybird
Fritz1423: hiya
PHChristy: Hi there Fritz! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! We're discussing co-ownership.
Fritz1423: ty
MiniSch_nr: The dog lives in the pet home, but comes to the show home for grooming, training and when there are shows.
PHChristy: Ruffers, usually no
Clicker59: You Missed Saturday Night Chat & last Night Chat Double
Rueger: oh fun emme bald collie pup LOL
Clicker59: Hi Fritz this is Loo
Fritz1423: hi loo
MiniSch_nr: They were never without her longer that a few days and when I had her they had the option of her mother coming to stay so they had someone to sleep with
PHMorgan: Well, there are folks who abuse the idea. I have heard of folks who ask top dollar for their pups, require a co-ownership that incurrs manditory showing and 2 litters of pups back. I'm not sure ANY Dog is worth all that
doubleB: i know clicker, i get busy and don't remember
Clicker59: Mow that is going overboard
Rueger: sometimes the dog lives and is shown by the co-owner and breeder is in name only to help pick a mate if and when that time comes
emmemay_nr: She will get her hair back! I have co owned several dogs. I have only had to take one back and we did it on friendly terms. I pick my people very carefully!
Clicker59: I mean Morgan
Clicker59: Morgan I am tired
Rueger: Morgan yeah lots like that iin my breed
PHChristy: Hello Lovemysam!
Clicker59: Hi Love
Lovemysam_nr: Hello
PHChristy: Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! We are discussing co-ownership!
Lovemysam_nr: goodevening
PHMorgan: SOmetimes the folks can't even have a pup from either litter unless they BUY IT
doubleB: hi everyone who has entered
RuffersRule: HI love
Dab8_nr: hi
PHChristy: Morgan, that is pretty extreme IMO!
doubleB: oh, by the way, i have a litter coming friday
Lovemysam_nr: What is the current topic?
MiniSch_nr: Yes, there are lots like that in my breed. My ideal co-owner would be someone that is interested in showing - I would LOVE that. I would have someone to travel with.
PHChristy: doubleB, congrats, what breed?
doubleB: i'm getting excited, no matter how many i have, it's always exciting
doubleB: christy, pugs
Fritz1423: puppy breath!!!
PHMorgan: Hey good luck with that Double!
PHChristy: Hi, Lool! Welcome to Dog Breeding Chat! We are discussing co-ownership!
doubleB: my girl is HEAVY with babies
doubleB: she's had two litters of 8 which is big for pugs
RuffersRule: what kind of doggies are you expecting?
emmemay_nr: I hate to say it but some contracts are enough to make me run. We are all scared of being taken, that these contracts are murder!
PHChristy: Lovemysam, Dog breeding and co-ownership.
Clicker59: Christie that is what I was thinking
Rueger: some day I will get puppies again LOL
PHMorgan: LOL
MiniSch_nr: I would also be interested in co-owning with a junior handler.
PHChristy: we'll be starting Showdog chat in about 13 minutes :)
PHChristy: Mini, yes, actually I did that once!
PHMorgan: See ya'll next week - I gotta pick up my daughter from work...
PHChristy: just for a short time for a specialty, though
PHChristy: I forgot until you mentioned it
doubleB: i just need to get signed in during the dogs nights, christy
Lovemysam_nr: I am actually not sure why my dog's breeder did not co-own with me
PHChristy: and I have a photo of her with the dog right here in my office, you'd think it would have boosted my memory LOL
PHChristy: doubleB, every night is a dog night here
Lovemysam_nr: When my girl has pups I am planning on co-owning all of the pups
Fritz1423: sliding vitamin e and ginseng over to christy
PHChristy: LOL Fritz
PHChristy: Fritz, I may be beyond that
Clicker59: I think I am going to By pass the Show Dog chat because we are getting french doors up tomoprrow that is going to take 3 days to put up
MiniSch_nr: I would love to get a little sister that is interested in dog showing - guess I should apply to that organization.
doubleB: anyone have any experience with red raspberry leaves?
Rueger: I need that fritz very badly LOL
PHChristy: doubleB
Lovemysam_nr: maybe the breeder did not think she'd turn out as nice as she did
PHChristy: I do
Fritz1423: ordering a truckload
PHChristy: I myself never had ANY trouble with them
doubleB: a breeder recommended it as something to help with the delivery
Lovemysam_nr: or that i really did not plan on showing her
PHChristy: Lovemysam, yes, I bought a bitch once where the breeder regretted selling her
PHChristy: she turned out quite lovely
MiniSch_nr: Check on the Whelpwise site - they are against them.
RuffersRule: cool click
Lovemysam_nr: thats the thing...the breeder was deciding between the girl or the boy
Lovemysam_nr: decided to keep the boy
LOOL_nr: what kind of dog love
PHChristy: doubleB, I myself never had trouble, but Karen from Whelpwise does have some compelling statistics that it causes problems way out of the extent breedres who dn't use it have
Lovemysam_nr: gave me the 2nd pick
PHChristy: I have a link to her discussing this, letme get it for you
Lovemysam_nr: but thought that theyd do a co-ownership
Lovemysam_nr: i am glad that they didn't
doubleB: christy, where's whelpwise at?
MiniSch_nr: Lovemysam - that is why I still have the whole litter - 3 males. I wanted to be sure who I wanted to sell. We have size disqualification and I sold the wrong dog out of another litter.
Lovemysam_nr: the other show dog that i have was co-owned
PHChristy: here is the link to the chat Karen of Whelpwise did with us, where she discusses red raspberry leaf: http://www.doghobbyist.com/articles/DogHobbyist/DogBreeding/March282003.html
Clicker59: Double Christie will get the link for you
Lovemysam_nr: love my SAM oyed
PHChristy: I no longer use it
Lovemysam_nr: Samoyed
Rueger: hmm I use raspberry leaves with no problems in last 5 days
PHChristy: yes, she says if you're going to use it, just use it at the end
Clicker59: Rue for what?
doubleB: i will check it out
Rueger: whelping Loo
Lovemysam_nr: Well, when my pup has pups I am going to co-own all of them
doubleB: this is the first time i've used it
MiniSch_nr: Still having trouble choosing because all three a nice - just nice in different ways and it looks like they are all going to be in size.
Clicker59: OK Rue
Lovemysam_nr: I already know that they will be slow maturing
doubleB: but the girl who suggested it bred one of my bitches during the summer, and she swears by it
Lovemysam_nr: as my bitch has been
LOOL_nr: how do you no if you dog is pregent or not?
PHChristy: LOOL, you have to go to the vet
Lovemysam_nr: LOOL take the dog to the vet!!!
PHChristy: doubleB, read the link I sent
Clicker59: Lool take it to the vet
Rueger: Lool by ultrasound or X-ray if late enough
PHChristy: then you can make up your mind
doubleB: LOOL, how long ago was the breeding?
MiniSch_nr: I have quit palpatating - wait until a week before they are due and x-ray.
LOOL_nr: oct
PHChristy: october what?
Clicker59: OK
Lovemysam_nr: Anyhow...my dog i 1 win away ffrom her Championship
Dab8_nr: hay rueger u no doggy that was my sister
Lovemysam_nr: ll owner handled
PHChristy: congrats, lovemysam!
Clicker59: Love good
Fritz1423: sam, that's wonderful
Lovemysam_nr: by myself and I am new to the whole dog showing thing
LOOL_nr: like 8th
Lovemysam_nr: so I am very proud
Rueger: no I did not dab
PHChristy: we have lots of Sammy folks here normally
Wiches_nr: Christy, thoughts on Reglan?
doubleB: lovemysam, are you showing yourself?
Lovemysam_nr: I think the breeder is probbly shocked
Lovemysam_nr: Yes I am showing her myself
PHChristy: Wiches, I've used it ... I mean, on my dogs. Now and then. Do you mean for nausea?
MiniSch_nr: Love my sam - Congrats. My boy now has 9 points including 3 majors - only 6 more points to go.
MiniSch_nr: Anyone going to Tulsa?
PHChristy: Hi there Mow!
Dab8_nr: ipunch her
doubleB: hi mowgli
Wiches_nr: To bring in milk
Lovemysam_nr: 1 last major to go
Clicker59: Hi Mow
PHMowgli: Hi everyone
PHChristy: Wiches, I've never heard of that!
Lovemysam_nr: I really have become addicted
MiniSch_nr: Hi Mow
ode2adream: Hiya Mow :)
MiniSch_nr: Glad to have the majors out of the way.
Wiches_nr: It is used in humans for same reason, too.
Clicker59: Mini cool
MiniSch_nr: Put 3 majors on him in 3 weeks. Took last weekend off.
Lovemysam_nr: she doesn't behave particularly well in the ring
Wiches_nr: Can cause diarrhea though
Lovemysam_nr: but is always animated
PHMowgli: wow mini good deal
PHMowgli: congrats
Wiches_nr: Thought you might know more about it.
PHChristy: I just googled it, I had no idea
Dab8_nr: i banged in a display case
MiniSch_nr: Yes, Mow - I am pretty excited. Think we have a chance to finish on this coat.
PHChristy: no, you hit on the one thing I don't know about
Lovemysam_nr: SSO...Why would a breeder not CO-OWN
Lovemysam_nr: ?
PHMowgli: Christy must be a miracle
Wiches_nr: Say it ain't so, Christy!
PHChristy: Lovemysam, I don't think there is really a reason against it, it's just not the normal practice for most dog owners
PHChristy: ROFL, I know, it's hard to believe myself.
RuffersRule: ok u all got to tackle the homework nitters
MiniSch_nr: If I am selling a dog as a pet, I don't co-own. I sell on a spay/neuter contract. If the dog is going to be intact, I co-own.
PHMowgli: hey boxer
PHChristy: Hi boxerbeauty! Welcome to dog breeding chat!
doubleB: i don't like the idea of having to give up any control over the dog
doubleB: hi boxer
Lovemysam_nr: I know my family never wanted to co-own but... if it was co-own or not get the puppy
PHChristy: which is becoming Showdog Chat in just about 3 minutes
Lovemysam_nr: we'd co-own
MiniSch_nr: No body breeds my babies but me.
PHChristy: doubleB, I am with you, I'm a control freak
boxerbeauty: hello, I need some advice
Fritz1423: amazing how many of the katrina rescue dogs were intact males
PHChristy: Wiches, are you considering using Reglan to inducle lactation?
Lovemysam_nr: I guess there is liability with a co-ownership too
PHChristy: boxerbeauty, what's up?
PHMowgli: I am also a control freak
doubleB: and i also like to sell on a spay neuter contract, i have not sold one pug yet for breeding
Clicker59: Christie you know I love the new chat schedules
doubleB: it's taken a lot of money to get where i am in my program
Lovemysam_nr: but as the breeer i guess I would rather have to deal with the liability
PHMowgli: love yes what happens if the dog yu co-own bites when at co-oowners house?
boxerbeauty: I have been breeding boxers for 7 years and am having my first problem with a buyer
PHChristy: Clicker, I'm glad to hear it
Clicker59: [img id=em-5]
doubleB: what happened boxer?
PHChristy: boxer, sorry to hear that, what's going on?
Wiches_nr: My vet prescribed it for my bitch. He rmilk came in but she had profuse diarrhea so she then became dehydrated and milk stopped. UGH
Lovemysam_nr: then have the dog end up in a shleter or something else because the other co-owners are just not familiar with dog behaviors
PHMowgli: tell us boxer
Wiches_nr: Not sure that I would use it again.
MiniSch_nr: Actually the other reason I haven't sold any of the boys from the last litter is if I sell one as a pet, I intend to have it neutered before it leaves my house. We have some puppy mills in the area which would love to get their hands on my pedigree.
PHMowgli: or worse Love you end up in lawsuit too
Lovemysam_nr: guess i ma lucky to have a lawyer in the family
PHChristy: LOL Love
boxerbeauty: my pups are very high quality and I take my responsibility seriously. This pup is a 6 month old nale whose testicles were down when purchased
Lovemysam_nr: my sis who is a dog lover big time and into rescue dogs
MiniSch_nr: I have some pretty heavy liquidating damages in my contract if the person I sell a puppy to turns it into a shelter.
PHMowgli: anything that happens with a dog all owners are responsible for even co-owners
Clicker59: Christie you can count on me to attened them but I may not be in heree for the Next 3 night if you don't see me it's because of us putting in the new French doors
PHChristy: Hi SmDog!
PHSmDog: Hey Christy
Lovemysam_nr: I guess the pros out weigh the cons though
PHChristy: folks, that's it for Dog Breeding Chat, thanks for coming and we'll see you next week! I now turn you over to SmDog and Mowgli for Showdog chat....
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