To keep up with the pace, join the chat list at http://groups.yahoocom/group/doglegislation/

And you can always contact me at dropfred@ptd.net

dropfred: we are not trying to frighten anybody...we want you to KNOW.

dropfred: understand, learn and protect yourself.

ode2adream: ?

eviltwin_nr: ?

PHMowgli: hi hope your question

Hi_hope_nr: what can I say to my fellow hobby breeders that support this bill, to make them "see the light". their argument is that they dont breed but 1-3 litters a year anyways, and this bill has nothing to do with them "right now" but they'll be more than happy to stand and fight it then.

dropfred: YOu can share those links with them, that's a start

PHAbymom: !

dropfred: those 1-3 litters will become

dropfred: extinct as well.

Clicker59: ?

KenS_nr: since there are specific numbers of litters or dogs you can breed, it's very easy to start amending that and bring the numbers down

dropfred: as holt has said...the numbers will go down until

dropfred: it is ZERO litters.

KenS_nr: to one litter ... or zero litters, which is what other supporters would really want as far as the pet population goes

dropfred: therefore, we hobby breeders will be a thing of the past.

dropfred: I will send christie a story written by a non believer

PHMowgli: aby your comment?

dropfred: she wrote it after she finally GOT what we were trying to tell her.

PHAbymom: All you have to do to fall under the law is place ONE animal that was not whelped on your property...

PHAbymom: A retired animal you bought...

PHAbymom: a rescue

singltrak_nr: or have a hunting dog or sell one

PHMowgli: singltrak you are next

PHMowgli: que is singltrak, ode, eviltwin, clicker

KenS_nr: if you have a co-owned bitch, that litter that she has even if she's in another home will count as yours

dropfred: that is true, Ken.

PHMowgli: singltak are you done?

dropfred: what bothers me is having an inspector from peta

Clicker59: OK I will be back then

dropfred: or hsus come to MY house.

singltrak_nr: registering with another registry as UKC won't help either

dropfred: I have a problem facing them in council meetings as it is.

PHMowgli: ode ask your question

dropfred: no, it won't matter what registry you use.

sugee10: ???

dropfred: ga

ode2adream: What things can we do to protect ourselves and fight this bill if AKC and others are not listening?

PHMowgli: ode?

PHMowgli: oops there ya are LOL

dropfred: you can contact your state representatives and

ode2adream: hehe

KenS_nr: you write YOUR senators and congresspeople

KenS_nr: contact all of them in your state

KenS_nr: phone them, write them, or both

dropfred: advise them of your desire for them to oppose S1139

KenS_nr: tell them that you oppose PAWS

KenS_nr: go into detail but don't get too exotic, they wont' read it

dropfred: Here is a link for you to just

ravenbourne: ?

KenS_nr: if they happen to be on the Agricultural Committee, call them and voice your opinion

dropfred: put in your zip code and your reps will appear: US Congress.

ode2adream: Thank you:)

KenS_nr: the same bill is also in the House ... HR 2667

PHMowgli: evil twin go ahead

dropfred: I believe it is 2669 Ken.

KenS_nr: I'm sorry, that is correct, Linda

KenS_nr: HR 2669

dropfred: Please also include my email address so if there are

dropfred: any questions, they can email me directly: dropfred@ptd.net.

PHChristy: Thank you, Linda, I will do that!

dropfred: and Ken as well.

KenS_nr: Mine also

eviltwin_nr: I do local purebred rescue, am national breed club rescue chair. As local, group is 501c7, but licensed by state. Is 501c3 better (in this instance)

KenS_nr: Well, the 501c3 is tax exempt as a non-political entity

eviltwin_nr: Also thought placement threshhold was 25, not 1

KenS_nr: the group I belong too is a 501c3 and licensed with the state

PHMowgli: seawind you had a comment?

KenS_nr: regarding PAWS it really doesn't make any difference. There is no exeption for any 501 groups

seawindbt: Sorry, this is not specifically on PAWS, but frankly I am TERRIFIED by all the legislation, especially BSL, being proposed around the countyr. I'm afraid that my breed will become extinct or that I won't be able to own or breed them in years ahead. We are thinking of buying a home, but now with all the stuff in CA we are holding off . . . but is there anywhere safe. I've adored my breed since I was a child. . . I can't imagine not having them. Oh, I have the clowns of the dog world, bull terriers.

dropfred: we can get into bsl shortly. and ddl.

dropfred: in a sentence, if we do not defeat paws, bsl and ddl

dropfred: will make no difference.

dropfred: there will be none at all.

dropfred: also, if paws passes, it will open the doors wide

dropfred: and every arista will be trying to get any kind of bill

eviltwin_nr: Why is it so few people really seem to get what damage PAWS will do?

dropfred: they can involving animals into effect.

PHChristy: !

dropfred: they believe it is helping animals....puppy mills if you will.

PHMowgli: christy your comment?

PHChristy: I think that part of the problem is that Linda is describing an underlying agenda

dropfred: not realizing that the A/R's consider us ALL as puppy mills.

PHChristy: but it's not the stated goal of this effort. So many of us simply do not, or will not, believe that a law like PAWS, that looks very reasonable, might down the road lead to such huge, drastic regulations.

PHChristy: And so we tune it out, and push it to the back of our minds.

PHChristy: I think that in a way, it actually can be counterproductive to start with the doomsday scenario, because it overwhelms people and they don't process it or even, often, believe it

dropfred: how about I tell you a little story ....I wrote it last year

PHChristy: it's not about what is or isn't true, it's about what people believe or don't believe

dropfred: agreed.

PHMowgli: clicker you are up

Clicker59: How will that efect me having a dog? I only have one dog is why I am asking& does this apply Bassets as well?

PHChristy: ga

KenS_nr: agreed, Christy

dropfred: not sure I understand you clicker. If you have one dog, you should not be affected at this time.

dropfred: however, keep in mind that bsl and ddl will pop up.

PHMowgli: sugee10 go ahead

dropfred: and those that will see us dogless can add any

dropfred: breed to their list.

sugee10: what if we as akc competators boycott AKC dog shows for a yr, wouldnt that get into AKCs pocketbook?I already have written AKC laws site several times, they dont like me much.I also write my congressman and senate.I just get a form letter back.They dont care. I dont know if it would do any good to register our dogs with UKC, I guess this PAWS will include them in thus USDA thing too correct? Puppy mills wil alwatys be around,They dont register their dogs, half the time anyways as they are happy to sell them for $50.00-100.00 ea.

echo_nr: !

ode2adream: ?

Clicker59: But will thos effects to the point that they may step in annd say you can't have a dog at all?

dropfred: as I stated earlier, we are the minority as far as $

dropfred: for the akc.

sugee10: i am a labrador fancier, and have a few labs I show, for the sport of it, as they are a great breed.

dropfred: yes, they are.

Goodsister_nr: Q

KenS_nr: by not showing, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face

KenS_nr: you are harming the breed by not showing the standards of the lab

KenS_nr: and the performance of show labradors

KenS_nr: it wouldn't be too wise to boycott shows

PHMowgli: que is sugee, echo, ode, and goodsister

KenS_nr: it's been considered but people have decided it's more feasible to go to the shows and discuss this problem of PAWS with the other exhibitors

KenS_nr: ga

sugee10: Im trying to think of a way to get akcs attention though

DW1976_nr: ?

PHMowgli: echo your comment

sugee10: one yr of not showing , might just hurt them

echo_nr: To answer Clickers ?, it will affect who the single dog (owner or owner to be) gets their dog from. If many of us bow out because we don't want the goverment in our homes....who does that leave you to get your dogs from? the commercial breeders that have no problem meeting USDA criteria

dropfred: that is absolutely right, echo.

KenS_nr: to get AKC's attention

KenS_nr: go through your club delagates

KenS_nr: they are meeting in October to elect the new AKC board

KenS_nr: they are the ones who will show AKC where the clubs tand

KenS_nr: stand

Goodsister_nr: AKC seems to be concerned in the minutes of show dropoffs due to Katrina....I think a weekend off for nationwide would tell them

KenS_nr: ga

Clicker59: We need to get AKC Attention on this

dropfred: akc's attention is toward $

echo_nr: !

sugee10: I love to go to the shows, for s ure, , but I feel like im giving AKC money in their pockets, now, and it will hurt me later, if I do this.

PHMowgli: your comment echo

echo_nr: AKC is crazy if they think they are going to get a major portion of the contract

ode2adream: A lot of mills are already registered with USDA, and lets face it. If they are making money they arn't going to wake up and grow a heart and say what they was doing is wrong. Specially when you remove hobby breeders, thier demand for thier ill bred dogs grows. Thus lining thier pockets, USDA's and the registeries.

KenS_nr: It would hurt the local kennel clug putting on the show more than the AKC

echo_nr: the peta and HSUS foldk will do it for free

dropfred: I feel that the akc themselves were "Used"

KenS_nr: sugee, you are probably correct

echo_nr: !

KenS_nr: not only that ode2, I had a message today that USDA is planning to close down 600 farm service offices across the nation

KenS_nr: so this legislation will give them a new source of personell to enforce laws.

dropfred: I saw that as well, Ken.

echo_nr: Its past the point of trying to get AKC's attention, we have to lead them, not follow their lead

KenS_nr: The AKC is being used

dropfred: at the delegate meeting last week, it was reported

dropfred: that all the talk we heard about akc helping to

dropfred: change the wording of s1139 to "protect" the hobby breeder

eviltwin_nr: Are you sure delegates meet in October to appoint Board?

dropfred: is not guaranteed.

KenS_nr: as far as I know yes, they meet in October

sugee10: I even wrote my congressman and mentioned to him, thet if he dindt think of the long term, someday , that someday , his own grandchild may not be able to have a dog, from a home raised dog fancier, that has taken the time to research their own breed to produce the best puppy possible, it is sad, i told him.

KenS_nr: Linda?

dropfred: yes, Ken?

KenS_nr: do you iknow if they meet in October?

dropfred: re: October...I believe is correct.

Note: Linda sent this correction after the chat:

The nominating committee of the AKC has been chosen already. I thought, and so did Ken, that the nominees would be read in October, but that is not the case. The nominees will be read at the January meeting in Tampa, Fla. The election will be March in NYC.

KenS_nr: that is how we need to show our disapproval, by electing new board members

PHMowgli: ok everyone one more time follow protocol before the whole room is gagged

dropfred: ga

PHMowgli: Dw1976 your question

DW1976_nr: Ok I have written, called lawmakers--get little feed back--I really can not figure out AKC--why are they going against their customers. The ones that breed to show standards are the ones that keep the breed standard going--are they going to proudly show the places that look like chichen breeding barns to show what standard they hold for a AKC bred dog? Has the AKC been surprised at all by

DW1976_nr: us yelling so loud

eviltwin_nr: Is AKC nominating committee pro or anti PAWS?

dropfred: I honestly believe that the akc realizes that it made a mistake..however, not willing to admit it.

KenS_nr: as far as the legislators in Washington, since officially this bill just came on the docket right after Labor Day, technically our lawmakers had not even seen the bill or anything else

KenS_nr: I understand this happened just two days after Labor Day, right in the middle of Hurricane Katrina

KenS_nr: I would call all the legislators back

dropfred: ET....not sure about the nom. committee.

KenS_nr: now that the bill is available in both Senate and House versions, they can now see exactly what is going on

PHMowgli: que is currently empty so if you would like to post a question type "?" or to make a comment post "!"

KenS_nr: Before Labor Day, you were told there was no such bill or given just a limited outline

eviltwin_nr: ?

KenS_nr: mostly just deletions of the AWA bill

KenS_nr: the thing is, dont' give up!

KenS_nr: legislators operate by public forces

KenS_nr: next year is an election year

KenS_nr: they have to start listening to their constituents

KenS_nr: ga

PHMowgli: evil go ahead

eviltwin_nr: How do we make sure we have AKC Board that is working FOR us, not harming us?

boxer_nr: Could I get papers for my dog?/

KenS_nr: your delagates have to talk to the candidates for the board

KenS_nr: and find the right people to be ON the board

eviltwin_nr: ?

KenS_nr: it is the club delegates who will have the final say as to the makeup of the board

PHMowgli: evil go ahead

DW1976_nr: ?

dropfred: NO

PHMowgli: que is evil, dw1976

dropfred: hold up a sec.....

dropfred: I need to say something about the delegates.

dropfred: they can only say or do what they are instructed

dropfred: if a club is pro paws, the delegate may not be,

dropfred: but it is their obligation to do as instructed.

ravenbourne: ?

dropfred: not all of the parent clubs have openly opposed paws.

dropfred: ga

DW1976_nr: Right now the power of the AKC seems to be made up of the good ole boys--they IMO need to be out on their ear--they have forgotten why they are there.

PHMowgli: evil your question?

eviltwin_nr: Are current delegates those who are eligible to be nominated for Board?

KenS_nr: PAWS is so poorly and loosely written, you cannot support it, there is no safety net. If it was re-written to hit a happy medium - and that law has to be written in such a way that there is no loose end that could be misinterpreted by a local inspector or contractor under USDA ....

KenS_nr: eviltwin, I don't know

dropfred: ET....the assumption is yes to your ?

KenS_nr: Linda may know

DW1976_nr: !

PHMowgli: DW you had a follow up comment?

DW1976_nr: I'm sorry --dog entered my comment

PHMowgli: raven go ahead

dropfred: from what we have seen so far from akc, they

dropfred: are not going to change their decision.

DW1976_nr: ?

PHMowgli: ravenbourne your question?

KenS_nr: we have to change the board, that is what it comes down to

KenS_nr: ga

ravenbourne: So, I have a BOD meeting tomorrow night. We have the PAWS opposition issue on our agenda. What if our delagate is "pro PAWS?"

sugee10: ??

Hi_hope_nr: ?

dropfred: your club decision should be taken on a vote.

dropfred: for example, my parent club sent out a poll to all the members.

ravenbourne: Yes, it will be taken by vote

dropfred: of the board members or ALL club members?

KenS_nr: Your delegate has to take the position of the CLUB to the meetings. He or she should have no bias or thought of his or her own. He or she should represent what the club wants, not waht he or she wants

dropfred: that is right.

ravenbourne: All members. The BOD will write the opinion to forward to the delegate

dropfred: raven, has your club not yet made a decision re: Paws?

dropfred: example...my parent club wanted to stand down and

dropfred: make no decision.

ravenbourne: The decision has been made. Just the formal letter needs to be drafted.

KenS_nr: ravenbourne, that should be sent to legislators as well as the AKC

dropfred: I complained so they sent out a poll...which came back opposing paws...at the last meeting, our delegate had to state that the club opposed.

ravenbourne: We do not meet Jul and Aug

KenS_nr: Can I ask what your breed is?

ravenbourne: Mine?

KenS_nr: yes

ravenbourne: My breed is Boxers. I am referring to an AB local kennel club

KenS_nr: thanks

macawlover: holy cow! There's a TON of people here!

PHMowgli: DW1976 go ahead

DW1976_nr: If most of the clubs vote no--what would be their choice but to back off? Know our local club has voted no--our parent club has voted no and forwarded it to AKC tho the delegate

KenS_nr: Welcome, macawlover - this law also affects birds and exotic pets too

macawlover: ok, good

dropfred: we are hoping to defeat paws ...in the legislature.

dropfred: If we all pitch in and call, fax, write...this bill will

KenS_nr: election time for the board is when the delegates speak for the club. They make their change with the vote.

KenS_nr: they control the makeup of the board

dropfred: never make the floor.

KenS_nr: they have to vote new people into office

KenS_nr: am I correct Linda?

macawlover: you already dais that, sm

dropfred: yes, you are.

dropfred: we cannot get akc to change and admit they made a mistake.

dropfred: we have to Put it to the legislatures.....

KenS_nr: The way they passed the Animal Welfare Act is they stuck it in a 760-page farm approporiations bill, which is how they got it passed. If it doesn't come to the floor of the House and Senate, it won't get an up or down vote

KenS_nr: ga

PHMowgli: sugee10 go ahead

sugee10: Linda, Do you feel that there is PETA or some secret antidog supporerts on the payroll at AKC right now, pulling some strings maybe, with big money

eviltwin_nr: ?

dropfred: in which case, the akc will have been defeated, as well.

KenS_nr: actually your legislators in Washington must be aware of this bill and make sure it doesn't get stuffed into some other appropriations bill they are going to get passed

dropfred: I certainly believe there is something going on.

dropfred: dog news is one of them.

KenS_nr: sugee, interesting question. I don't think you could ever prove something like that unless someone came out preaching from the PETA handbook, but normally they'd stay deeply under cover where they could never be questioned regarding their stance.

sugee10: I just dont see where they will find enough inspectors to inspect all these dog fanciers homes, in the f uture, they cant do it now,

KenS_nr: If there IS such a mole on the board, replacing the board will eliminate that mole.

dropfred: inspectors.....peta and hsus have plenty of people that would LOVE to inspect our homes.

dropfred: it has been suggested that akc would like to get the "contract"

echo_nr: !

Clicker59: !

dropfred: I don't know how they would be able to do it alone, either.

PHMowgli: echo you have a comment?

echo_nr: My firm belief is that the local animal control (trained by HSUS) will be enlisted to take on inspections.

KenS_nr: I think that is probably AKC's underlying goal. But they aren't going to get it, they are a tiny minority compared to the groups who are involved right now.

sugee10: well, i asked akc, that, and i told them its an invation of privacy for them to sell out our names, as their private clients, they told me they would never do that , lier, liers

dropfred: echo...that is what is suggested.

PHMowgli: Clicker did you have a comment on inspections?

dropfred: hsus and peta.

Clicker59: Ye I don't like amy of this

Clicker59: Any I mean

dropfred: if you think about it...when you register a litter, akc has the information and if you are over the numbers....would pass it on.

PHMowgli: thank you clicker

Clicker59: YW

PHMowgli: hi hope your question?

sugee10: comment:

PHMowgli: follow up sugee?

Hi_hope_nr: If / when the Board is changed, will that have any effect ? I am though greatful that the Labrador Retriever Club finally gave paws a thumbs down. Whew. I was getting scared there for awhile.

dropfred: You all need to focus on legislature...not akc. akc

dropfred: is just a little spot on the map.

PHMowgli: !

dropfred: If the right people get in the board, it would have an effect.

KenS_nr: That is true, Linda.

sugee10: what some of us thought if doing was, to have alitter, say its like 8 puppies, only register 2 of them or 3, for show prospects/breeders, then place the others with no papers at less of a price on spay/nueter still this would keep our numbers down but quality of our breed up

KenS_nr: But a new AKC board will also have the right to turn around and oppose PAWS, even though the prior board favored it

sugee10: this way usda stays out of our business,

KenS_nr: but by focusing on impacting the AKC, you're missing the point completely

dropfred: but the current bill is 25/6.

Hi_hope_nr: !

dropfred: it would not matter if you had 16 pups in one litter or 1....6 litters is 6 litters. period

PHMowgli: right Ken and Linda but this is a bill trying to be passed into Law and if it is a Law regardless of AKC we will be stuck so we need to fight to stop it now

sugee10: i wouldnt have 6 litters any how

emmemay_nr: !

Clicker59: 1

ravenbourne: !, ?

Clicker59: !

PHMowgli: registry is secondary

dropfred: we have been fighting this for months ...which is why I said that focusing on the akc will not solve the problem.

dropfred: we all need to focus on our legislative reps.

PHMowgli: hi hope you r comment

dropfred: we beat them, we beat akc.

Hi_hope_nr: Those of us who have contacted everyone we possibly can, have talked/discussed with other of our breeds hobbiests, what more can do that we have already done ?

Hi_hope_nr: oops sorry.. meant for ? , not !

KenS_nr: that is correct, but the specific numbers as stated in the bill can be reduced from 25 to 15 and from 6 to three, and then they WILL get low enough to affect you. It's too loosely written. The numbers are easy to change. Eventually you will be affected.

PHMowgli: emme your comment

PHMowgli: hi hope that was a question not a comment

dropfred: hi hope....

sugee10: comment

dropfred: we keep calling, writing, sending packets, faxing....we have been non stop.

dropfred: matter of fact, somebody had to close down their office the other day...too many phone calls, faxes.

emmemay_nr: My thoughts exactly, Whos to say in a year or two the numvers get changed. There may very well be no in home breeding allowed.

dropfred: legislatures are going to listen to the grassroots.

PHMowgli: thank you emme

dropfred: it won't take a year or two emme.

dropfred: much less time.

emmemay_nr: ?

dropfred: home breeding will become a thing of the past.

dropfred: and that is why we fight.

dropfred: ga

PHMowgli: raven you also had a comment

KenS_nr: basically it's a time game, and they have all the time in the world. We have to stay on top of the agenda so it doesn't get through, the way they do things in Washington

PHGeezer: ?

PHMowgli: evil go ahead with your question

dropfred: ga

eviltwin_nr: Can non-delegate attend delegate meeting, like club members can attend meeting, but cannot speak? To get a clue as to who is for/against PAWS?

dropfred: no.

ravenbourne: I guess the way I see it, is that the AKC is simply an accounting office for the ARists (PETA and HSUS). AKC will report the numbers and other governing bosies will react. So, the only way to kill this bill is through our own legislators?

eviltwin_nr: Okay, thanks

ravenbourne: *bodies

dropfred: non delegates are not permitted.

dropfred: yes, raven...YES.

dropfred: we kill the bill, we defeat the akc as well.

KenS_nr: basically yes, raven

EClatSPs: Hello!

EClatSPs: Big group tonight.

PHMowgli: emme your question

dropfred: Hello.

emmemay_nr: I am jumping in here late, but how in the world did the akc get in bed with the animal rights, Peta, and Doris Day people?

ravenbourne: !

KenS_nr: but they have to be aware that the bill is on the agenda so it doesn't become part of another bill they are in favor of. They have to be vigilant and we have to keep them advised of what is happening. Our legislators should be able to extend our wishes and defeat the bill.

dropfred: emme...we have all been trying to figure that out.

KenS_nr: emmemay, that's the $128 million question

KenS_nr: maybe a snowjob or verbal promise? without being there when they made their decision, it's impossible to say

KenS_nr: but those are the strangest bedfellows I've ever seen!

KenS_nr: ga

dropfred: bottom line....conclusion....

dropfred: $

PHMowgli: Geezer go ahead

PHGeezer: So basicly, this is a bill in committee, that should never reach the floor? And then make sure it is not attached to another bill on the floor?

KenS_nr: I don't think the AKC is thinking straight

PHSmDog: ?

dropfred: geezer, that is basically correct.

KenS_nr: if the AKC is thinking money, why wouldn't breeders just go register with UKC instead of AKC? It will hurt AKC in the long run ... both UKC and CKC oppose PAWS.

dropfred: if we defeat this, we can be sure they will try another avenue.

dropfred: you have to think of the numbers involved with commercial breeders here.

dropfred: they outweigh us.

PHMowgli: PHSmDog you are up

PHSmDog: This is the SAME AKC that a few years ago suggested the responsible breeders allow puppy mills to use their breeding stock to improve their breeding programs, right? Enough said.

dropfred: importers as well....register your dog with akc....

dropfred: PHS.....right you are.

emmemay_nr: ?

PHMowgli: !

dropfred: the same akc that has allowed commercial breeders to advertise on their site.

PHSmDog: Drop... I'd spay/neuter everything on the place first

dropfred: you should all recall the fuss we put up when that happened.

PHMowgli: OK If AKC is so bad why are so many breeders using them? do not answer this itis rhetorical something for us to all think about

dropfred: like any other registry...you have to register there to show at those shows.

ravenbourne: !

dropfred: ga

PHMowgli: raven your comment

PHMowgli: then next in que after this comment is Emme

PHMowgli: raven must have a long comment

dropfred: ga gee, I lost the whole page for a minute there.

ravenbourne: Back to the legislators.... In Feb of this year, we had a h@ll of a row here in Maine, relative to Veterinarian disclosure of adverse vaccine effects. I do not remember seeing any ARists in the hearing rooms. Or, if there were any, they didn't identify themselves. We DID have the undivided attention of the legislators though.... Guess I had better email the Vaccine folks and see what they are up to relative to PAWS???

dropfred: you should do so.

dropfred: I would think they would oppose.

KenS_nr: I think the legislature shelved or went against that law, though?

PHMowgli: Emme and you had a question

emmemay_nr: Is the Hunte corp. have something to do with this? IF this bill gets passed, they will have a big piece of the breeding pie.

dropfred: afterall,if there are no dogs, who will they sell vaccine to?

dropfred: Hunte is opposed.

ravenbourne: !

dropfred: Hunte would be regulated. They do oppose paws.

emmemay_nr: ?

PHMowgli: ok lets Ken and Linda some time now to share some information with us.

dropfred: the original claim was the purpose of the bill was to regulate imports and internet selling of dogs/cats, etc.

dropfred: however, Paws will have NO effect on those subjects.

PHMowgli: lets give them some time that is

KenS_nr: Basically, the changes are not immediate and won't take place tomorrow

KenS_nr: 2006 is another election year

KenS_nr: we have to look at our candidates, talk to them, find out where they sit on these issues

dropfred: the awa already covers everything we need and don't need.

KenS_nr: once you find a candidate that you feel comfortable with, work for them, support them, get them into office

KenS_nr: when you change the legislative face in Washington or locally, to look at animal issues in a different light, that is when things will start changing

dropfred: Paws simply will regulate hobby breeders, rescue groups and allow government into our homes.

dropfred: somebody mentioned bsl a while ago.

KenS_nr: Bob King of SOAVA started it by sending questionairres to the candidates, and the majority their group supported were put into office

dropfred: this is another issue that can be used to get into your home.

KenS_nr: we need to put take this one step further. Look for the guy who is interested in what YOU have to say and in making changes you are interested in making. Those are the people you want in office.

KenS_nr: Hopefully we can sidetrack PAWS until their is a whole new voting body.

KenS_nr: I thank everyone for coming into the room tonight and hope we can do this again in the not too distant future. Thank you!

dropfred: For a little info, I spoke with Tim Holden today. Dem. Congressman on the Ag committee.

dropfred: It is his office's feeling that this bill will not make the floor this time around. Good news for now.

KenS_nr: we will have to watch for the bill next year

dropfred: but we need to continue with the pressure.

dropfred: and not allow bsl. or any laws to take affect.

dropfred: with bsl, they can keep adding breeds....

dropfred: even a little chihuahua can become a bsl.

dropfred: toys are notorious for showing aggression.

dropfred: we cannot allow any new laws to pass...

dropfred: I think Jeff Heldsdon said it best when he said that the "camel's head is in the tent".

dropfred: Now, we need to get him back out of the tent before he gets all the way in.

dropfred: We can do it, folks.

dropfred: WE CAN protect our rights.

dropfred: We dog people are so unique in every way...

dropfred: we need to work together, and let them know that WE still hold the cards....WE can vote you in and WE can vote you out.

PHChristy: I'd like to thank Linda and Ken for being our guests.

dropfred: I hope we helped in some way.

PHChristy: you were incredible, thank you SO much!

danedaze: ?

dropfred: I am always availabe via email.

ravenbourne: !

ode2adream: !

dropfred: danedaze? great danes?

dropfred: can we take raven and ode?

PHChristy: sure, go ahead!

dropfred: go ahead raven.

ravenbourne: Thanks Linda and Ken!!! Your forum was very educational!!! Y'all sure lit a fire under my butt!!!

PHChristy: everyone, please go ahead with your questions and comments, we'll have open chat now as long as Linda wants to hang out :)

ode2adream: Thank you, awesome wealth of knowledge you two are, thank you for sharing!

PHMowgli: thank you so much Ken and Linda

KenS_nr: thank you all so much!

KenS_nr: it was a pleasure

windspirit: Thank you very interesting

dropfred: I would like to say another thing. If any of you have questions and would like to send them to christie, or any of the others, do so.

PHChristy: you can contact me here and I will pass them along

PHChristy: or wait for the transcript and I'll include Linda and Fred's email addresses

dropfred: or email me. We will provide all the links you need thru Christie. Once you have them and you have questions....feel free to email me or Ken....we will be there for you.

PHMowgli: PHMowgli

emmemay_nr: I am still stuck about Hunte, they are already regulated by USDA. This bill wouldn't affect them much. They are smart people, so why are they against this bill? Something doesn't smell right!

danedaze: Did my question, and answer show up? I got bounced off. Would like to read the earlier chat if it will be available in transcript.

Hi_hope_nr: Linda, what breeds are you licensed to judge ?

dropfred: great danes, minpins, jrs.

sugee10: comment

PHMowgli: emme yes I am another who is thinking things like that

dropfred: danedaze...no your ? did not come thru.

PHMowgli: no dane

danedaze: Thank you, my question was answered.

PHGeezer: Thanks! Interesting session. G'nite all

PHChristy: Thank you, and thanks to all of you for coming tonight! Goodnight!

dropfred: Hunte corp....think about it. USDA is not able to do their job nowas it is...and hunte is considering importing.

danedaze: It was in regard to the chat being available later in a transcript.

dropfred: thats for christy.

PHMowgli: it will be dane if you get reminders a copy will be e-mailed to you

sugee10: i agree with you all about defeating the legistion if possible , but when one like my self writes them, and they send you this simple form letter back,the identical letter to the one i sent 2 mos prior, i know,my represenative is not, listening. I know my labrador parent club isnt supportingPAWS thank goodness. Its sad about the dog fancier home breeders too, as we are the ones that nuture our puppies, playing and holding them alot, and such,unlike these big ol commercial sterile kennel places .I much rather go sit in someones kitchen and look over a 8 wk old lab puppy. this was my comment , i see you are ending the chat tonite, so ill send it any ways, take care all

dropfred: I will hang out if anybody has any more questions.

PHMowgli: if you are not in reminder list e-mail me or christy at to get added