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PHMowgli: ok lets share our brags everyone

kaana: ok..can I brag?

berta: Sir's leg is getting better

PHMowgli: yes kaana

PHChristy: I have a brag....

PHMowgli: awesome news berta

PHFang: Helloooo full house!

PHChristy: I took Rebel to his first show as a special at our supported entry this weekend... and he went Best Op!!!!

berta: Fang !!

borzoid: It's been a while so I have a bunch - MY girl took 4th in AMbred at the nationals this year - 3 majors this summer and is coming home this week pregnant

PHChristy: of course I'd have rather had him go BOB, but this was ALMOST as good

PHFang: HOWDY Bert!!

kaana: My male Norfolk got BOS to COC TOP dog in the US in Sacramento!!! He got three 5 point major on that weekend!!

kaana: COCO

PHMowgli: Welcome to Show Dog Chat!!!!

PHFang: WOW!!! Huge congrats everyone!!!

PHChristy: kaana, borzoid, contratualtions!!!!

Rouen: hi fang, wb dogguy

dogguy_nr: still same topic?

berta: Oh gee now all of you are making me feel bad :-(

PHFang: Wish I'd had a productive weekend, but I coulda stayed home and phoned this one in.

PHMowgli: wow congrats everyone awesome job

kaana: thanks you thank you[img id=em-6]

borzoid: congrats all!! we are a busy bunch

PHMowgli: Tonights tpoic is showing au natural!!!!

PHFang: AKK Mow....us or the dogs?

PHFang: Horrors.

PHMowgli: so we will discuss the pro's and cons of showinf undocked

PHMowgli: uncropped

PHMowgli: un sculpted

PHChristy: goodnight all, see you next week!

PHMowgli: unmascara'd

PHFang: Mow, is there such a thing? LOL

PHMowgli: ha ha

borzoid: I sell eye lining sticks - yep very popular

PHMowgli: so does anyone have a breed that is typically docked?

PHMowgli: cropped?

PHFang: Well, I show an undocked uncropped breed. I love this.

PHMowgli: borzod you sell them?

borzoid: Mine are all natural

borzoid: I have a web store for grooming stuff

PHMowgli: mine are sorta natural LOL

PHMowgli: ah ok so you know all about this LOL

borzoid: some - docking isn't in my area of expertise but I know the cosmetics

berta: Mine are natural but I've shown Britts and GSD's

Rouen: I got a somewhat o/t question [img id=em-5]

PHMowgli: so what would our dogs look like if we did not add in the cosmetics

PHFang: Even tho I know I shouldn't, if one of my guys gets a little boo-boo their skin is white while it heals. So I do dab some black mascara on em to hide it.

PHFang: Poodles would be radically different Mow

PHMowgli: fang shame on you

PHFang: what's up rouen?

Rouen: are there any naturally docked or shorter tailed large breed dogs?

borzoid: Well the biggy is for tear stains - poodles, bishons and such

PHFang: Yup Yup....I know Mow. But at least I admit it! LOL

PHMowgli: the old english sheepdog

borzoid: so we would have a bunch of dogs that looked like they were crying

mailepom_nr: I've got a question, how do you all feel about cropping/docking (for or against?)

PHMowgli: that was for rouen lol

borzoid: [img id=em-0]

Rouen: mow they're born with tails

PHMowgli: maile I am against myself and I have a reason too

Rouen: or atleast all the pups Ive seen had tails

PHMowgli: rouen not many are born with tails

PHFang: maile, I favor right to choose. What I choose to do is my business, and what you choose to do is yours.

PHMowgli: and my reasoning is this maile

PHFang: Hi kaana!!

PHMowgli: Welcome to Show Dog Chat!!!!

kaana: i am back

Rouen: that the only breed you can think of mow?

PHMowgli: it is against rules and regs to alter a dog and then show it yet we do it daily on many breeds I am against this

PHMowgli: for large breed yes rouen

PHMowgli: for small breed the skip

borzoid: what's that button berta?

kaana: nite nite for now

PHMowgli: nite kaana

PHFang: hey I've seen undocked/uncropped Min Pins. They do not resemble the elegant dogs you see in the show ring...however if somebody wants to try one--so be it.

PHMowgli: so how do others feel about docking and cropping and why?

mailepom_nr: the cropping/docking issue is going to be a topic next week in my ethics class, just wondering how show people felt on this vs regular pet people

PHMowgli: maile my reasoning is that feel the standards contradict the rules

PHMowgli: if we cannot surgically alter a dog for show then how can we dock or xrop?

PHMowgli: crop*

mailepom_nr: I personally love the look of nice crop job, but I cannot think of any good arguments for cropping or docking

berta: My 14 year old gets alot of tearing.......... mainly cleaning

berta: oops

PHMowgli: no problem berta but quit buying eye liner LOL

PHMowgli: and borz give us your website LOL

borzoid: There was a historic reason for most docking or cropping - so do we do for historical reasons or looks?

Rouen: lol

PHFang: good point borzoid.

PHMowgli: afterall we may talk a good game but we do alter anyway to win LOL

berta: She doesn't need any .......... she and her children have excellent pigment......... no eye or lip rim breaks :-)

borzoid: fresh face is good by ring 5

PHFang: Look at boxers for example. The breed std does not require they be cropped. But just try and finish an uncropped one.

PHMowgli: exactly fang but how is this allowed if altering a dog is reason to dq

berta: An uncropped Dane was finished and campaigned quit a bit a few years back

PHFang: If there was a historic reason, and we are trying to breed the dog to resemble the fact that they could still possibly do the job intended....then we should still crop/dock them

PHMowgli: how can the AKC and other registery's allow one type of altering and not another?

berta: Look at Airedales.......... when I was a kid the tails were about 4 inches long now almost a foot.

PHFang: Well, Mow...we have California ya see.....HAHA

borzoid: I think I'll stick to straight chat - safer that way

PHFang: Who recently tried to sneak in an anti-crop/dock bill on the back of another worthwhile bill. Needless to say it did not pass

berta: I like the look of the Brit without a tail

PHFang: There are a few dogs that do finish despite au natural ears/tails etc. But it is rare

berta: AND some are natural bob tails however there is a lethal gene that accompanies it

PHMowgli: I do also berta but I am still against on principle

PHFang: and generally requires a prof handler

PHFang: well, Mow let's look at Sheltie ears. What possible reason for tipped ears?

PHMowgli: right fang and lots of cash LOL

PHMowgli: the tipped ears are natural actually

berta: It WAS natural at one point

PHMowgli: and my dogs do have natural tips

PHFang: And to what extent will folks ensure tipped ears now?

PHFang: Your dogs yes..but the majority do not

PHMowgli: well I will not do anything for a tip however some will weight tape use moleskin glue and only they know what else to get a tip

PHFang: So why should it be a fault if they do not tip? Does it serve any real function cept being adorably cute?

borzoid: OK - how about dew claws - do you take them off or not

PHMowgli: nope and I agree it should not be a fault it will not help or hurt the dog in any way to have a prick ear

PHMowgli: well borzoid this one is touchy LOL

berta: Gotta go up early tomorrow ........... nite all

borzoid: With the zoi folks it is anyway

PHFang: Yes borzoid, I do. But I feel that due to the potential for injury on my breed that it's in the dogs best interest

PHMowgli: I do not remove dewclaws unless they are double rears

borzoid: nite berta

PHFang: nite bert!

PHMowgli: however my dogs are penalized for this in the show ring

borzoid: well I have heard of incidents while coursing that resulted in tearing the dew claws off

PHMowgli: now my dogs with rear dewclaws actually use them

borzoid: and there are zoi owners with that argument as well

PHFang: I've seen dews torn off borzoid....just not acceptable for me

PHMowgli: and front dewclaws are needed on males to hold onto a bitch during a tie

borzoid: so you would take them off the pups?

PHMowgli: I do not unless they are double rears borz

PHFang: OOOOOH Mow. Now come on! Those boys can't hang on any other way?

borzoid: like mine would try to run away lol

PHFang: I bet zillions of sheltie stud dogs without front dews can still do the deed

PHMowgli: fang actually my boys use their dewclaws and I will not remove them

borzoid: [img id=em-5]

PHFang: I am sure they use them if they have them, but it's not essential :)

PHMowgli: and yes they can still breed but why are removing something that was put there for a reason?

borzoid: Other than the breeding thing - how do they use them

PHFang: I don't see a compelling reason for them in Chesters, Mow.

PHMowgli: borz they use them on agility to jump and climb logs and rocks

PHMowgli: tohold onto the back or a lamb

PHFang: They end up with more problems than good

borzoid: When I said torn off I meant accidentally while coursing - do I want to take that chance?

PHMowgli: I have never had a torn dewclaw and all my dogs have fronts and a couple rears

borzoid: yep - I opened a can of worms

PHFang: LOL borzoi

PHMowgli: borz that is what is good about these chats lol

PHFang: You are blessed, Mow. I don't know many ppl who believe as you do with working or conformation dogs

PHMowgli: we can have different opinions and different reasonings and share

borzoid: I know it is a very opinionated subject but I grew up with removing them and know I see a lot of dogs with them still on - not sure which way I want to go in this

PHMowgli: fang not many ppl believe as me period

PHMowgli: I tend to push the envelope on most subjects LOL

PHFang: HAHA yes you do Mow

PHFang: somehow, in my mind, seeing dews on a dog screams back yard breeder ( no offense mow)

PHMowgli: do I think showing is a neccesary thing?

PHMowgli: no I don't not in conformation anyway

PHMowgli: fang I used to think the same thing

PHFang: With a coated breed, it might not bother me so much. But to see a short hair breed with those sleek legs broken up by dews.....ew

PHMowgli: I had a litter of 5 then 3 of them died within 8 hrs of dewclaw removal

borzoid: when, historcally did removing them begin?

PHFang: That could be coincidence, Mow

PHMowgli: so my next litter I opted to leave dewclaws

PHFang: good question, borzoi.I dunno

borzoid: ohh

PHMowgli: and I then found out the dogs actually used the dang things

borzoid: Well, like the docking it would be interesting to know the historical reasons

PHMowgli: so that is when I started leaving dewclaws

Rouen: I guess that'd depend on the breed borz

borzoid: I have one guy with them on and I've never seen a hint that he uses them

PHMowgli: borz as far as dewclaws I believe they were removed for appearance only no actual reasoning other than in working dogs

PHMowgli: what does he do borz?

PHFang: me either borzoid...I have never seen a dog that actually used them for anything other than getting stuck in the carpet or collar

PHMowgli: and how high are they?

borzoid: he's a pain in my rear actually - just an imp and hopeful show dog

PHMowgli: se in my breed the dewclaws are really low like a thumb on the foot not up on leg

borzoid: On the zoi they tend to be quite high - I think if they were ever used it would have been during coursing game

PHMowgli: so we do not have a break in leg fang

borzoid: on those tight low to the ground turns

Rouen: hi jack

PHFang: Hi jack!

PHMowgli: Welcome to Show Dog Chat!!!!

borzoid: hi Jack

PHMowgli: possible borz

Rouen: welcome to dewclaw/docking/cropping chat jack

PHMowgli: it is actually a discussion on showing au natural

justjack_nr: Hi, does anyone happen to own a crazy doberman pup (61/2 months)

Rouen: [img id=em-5]

PHFang: HAHA no Jack...do you?

Rouen: no puppies here

borzoid: none here [img id=em-6]

justjack_nr: yes and all he does is BITE, BARK and JUMP

PHMowgli: so how does everyone feel on the dyeing of dogs coats and chalks and markers liners and doggie make-up?

PHFang: Mow, I think it's futile to fight it. They are going to do it no matter what

PHFang: I wish they could eliminate it but that's just not reality

PHMowgli: ah but fang do you feel you cannot win without it all?

borzoid: Absolutely hate chalk - for the most part - plain not healthy

PHFang: me? heck no...I don't do it other than a dot of mascara to cover a wound..if I even remember

PHMowgli: I am not talking about baby powder on a wet chest cause the dog got carsick I mean when you change yor dog totally

justjack_nr: does anyone know anything about managing a BITING, BARKING, Jumping 70 lb doberman pup?

borzoid: I think that would be acceptable or stains but not to cover a lack of natural mascara

borzoid: play biting or real biting

PHMowgli: exactly borz

justjack_nr: mixture

PHFang: Mow, the bottom line is for some dogs and some breeds you need to become a master beautician just to be competitive

PHMowgli: jack I think you need to take him to puppy class

PHMowgli: ha ha fang I know

justjack_nr: very definat , especially bites when corrected for disobediance

PHMowgli: could you imagine a poodle without it all

borzoid: how do you correct him?

justjack_nr: he is thorugh with obediance class, perfect in it

justjack_nr: prong collar,

justjack_nr: long down stays

borzoid: ew

borzoid: I would bite too if one of those things was on me

PHFang: Yes, Mow and I am quite sure I would like them a whole lot more

justjack_nr: he bites without it also

PHMowgli: me too fang

PHFang: at this last show, some poor boy scout was tasked with holding a white std poodle ringside

borzoid: Poodles and bichon frise are taken to extremes in grooming.

PHFang: He was drinking a coke....well you can imagine

borzoid: nooooo

PHFang: total horror and screaming and gnashing of teeth when a tiny bit spilled on the white dog

borzoid: and that was the owner right

justjack_nr: no advice huh!

PHFang: I felt awful for the poor kid who was only doing the stupid handler a favor

PHFang: jack, tips and training chat is Friday at 10PM eastern. That would be a good time for you to stop in

justjack_nr: thanks see ya

PHFang: Luckily, another handler swooped in and saved the poor boy scout before the handler creamed him

borzoid: poor kid

PHFang: yea, borzoi that's what I thought

PHMowgli: poor kid

PHFang: poop patrol has no rewards it seems

PHMowgli: dang how much damage can a drop of coke do

borzoid: My boy got a bingo dauber in the van on the way to the show and was bright blue when we got there - does that qualify for this discussion?

PHFang: ok, what badge do they get for poop patrol anyway?

PHFang: HAHAHAHAHAH borzoi!

PHMowgli: ha ha borz that is definetly not allowed LOL

borzoid: 4 bottles of dry shampoo later he went in with only bright blue nails

PHMowgli: oh good deal

PHFang: oh my goodness.....there wasn't a grooming area with a sink?

borzoid: Unfortunately I didn't even get to brush my girl out because of it

PHMowgli: now one of mine would never be able to show after that without a full bath and blow out

borzoid: none and no vendors either (canadian nationals too) had to beg the shampoo off of everyone else there

PHFang: heck, I could prolly wash mine in coke and have been ok....a little sticky but the color would have been ok

PHMowgli: wow

PHFang: wow

borzoid: For the most part mine are wash and wear

PHMowgli: well mine have a bit more fur than you LOL

borzoid: I blowdry ony to get the stubborn cowlicks to lay down

PHFang: for sure mow

PHMowgli: I blow dry cause they would be wet for week otherwise LOL

borzoid: Oh I have plenty of fur

borzoid: winter is diff - that undercoat holds it

PHFang: well you don't want to hear I can wash 5 mins prior and air dry while walking to the ring

PHMowgli: oh and I want one of you to give me a subject for next weeks chat LOL

borzoid: brb - my pain in the rear is barking to get in

PHMowgli: fang only in my wildest dreams can I do that

PHFang: yea, I know MOw

PHMowgli: even a shaved sheltie would take longer to dry LOL

PHFang: hahaha

borzoid: back

PHMowgli: WB

borzoid: I've taken mine into the ring still damp

PHMowgli: so any suggestions for next weeks show dog chat?

PHFang: How about an open gripe session?

PHFang: lol

borzoid: How about witty comebacks to the snotty superbreeder who has something smart to say about your dog

PHMowgli: ha ha so you both want open chat LOL

PHFang: yea....why not

PHMowgli: ok open chat it is

borzoid: will have my girly girl back and my web site kennel site is live now - if not totally complete - I want to brag

PHFang: cool borzoid! brag anytime

borzoid: www.eidolonborzoi.com - gallery & dog pages aren't done yet

PHMowgli: borz yes brag

borzoid: You can see the daddy to this litter there - this is gonna be a nice batch of pups

PHFang: WOW! I love the first page already! who did your artwork?

PHMowgli: Oh I love your home page

borzoid: I went to a fantasy art forum and said who can draw this?

PHFang: coool borzoi

borzoid: kiriko-moth is the artists name

PHMowgli: wow awesome

borzoid: I did the buttons and pedigrees and logo

borzoid: I'm having her do a whole series for me

PHFang: really nice!

borzoid: TY

PHFang: is she expensive?

Rouen: I gotta go, my dog just died

borzoid: Well the web art was reasonable but I posted a limit price

borzoid: ??

PHFang: very cool borzoid

PHMowgli: I love paladin

borzoid: THanks - he's my pain in the rear wusy borzoi

borzoid: hubby spoils him

borzoid: Chasm is my baby doll

PHMowgli: wow your site is great

PHFang: yes very nice borzoid

borzoid: Thanks - I've been working my butt off trying to get it out for the litter announcement

borzoid: I was just tickled about how the buttons turned out

PHMowgli: I love it

borzoid: Thanks - do any of you have websites?

PHFang: Hi clxt

PHFang: Yes.....borzoid. www.ebetmanchesters.com

borzoid: Nice - they are such atheletic looking little dogs

borzoid: Love the got milk

PHFang: Thanks borzoid!

PHFang: Yes, isn''t she cute? lol

PHMowgli: ha ha

PHMowgli: Well guys it is my bedtime

PHFang: me too, Mow

PHMowgli: I have to get up early to do my dog so I can go take care of the leader dogs LOL

PHFang: I got a vet appt tomorrow

PHFang: Those are always early.....arrgh

PHMowgli: ok see ya both next week or sooner

PHMowgli: next weeks topic is open gripes LOL

borzoid: Nite Mowgli

PHMowgli: niters all

borzoid: I gotta work too so I better be going also. I love the little guy on the deck in your fun photos

PHFang: thanks borzoid!

borzoid: have a good week all

PHMowgli: niters again