Chat Week on PetHobbyist.com Monday, December 9, 2002 Stephen Tobin, DVM Homeopathy and Pets
PHFasDog: Hello and welcome to the second night of PetHobbyist.com's Fourth Annual Chat Week! PHFasDog: I'm PHFasDog, site coordinator of DogHobbyist.com. We are extremely happy to see you all here tonight and to welcome our very special guest, holistic veterinarian Dr. Stephen Tobin. PHFasDog: Before I introduce Dr. Tobin, I just wanted to go over the protocol for the chat. PHFasDog: We will be using "Chat protocol" tonight. Let me explain. PHFasDog: One, if you have not already done so, you must create a nickname. If you entered the room through the direct link (the java link), then you need to simply type the nickname you want in the space where you normally type chat, and then hit "enter." PHFasDog: Use a name that is unique, as common names like "Sue" or "DogLover" are already registered to other users. PHFasDog: If the name you use is already taken, or you are here using mIRC or another IRC client, you create a nickname this way: PHFasDog: Type into the room the following text, and then hit enter when you are done: /nick desirednewname PHFasDog: Once you have done this, at any time during the chat, you may type a ? if you have a question, and a ! if you have a comment. The host will add your name to the queue, and you will be called on, in order. Please do not chat into the room until you have been called on! PHFasDog: If you have trouble or need to be reminded how this works, just doubleclick on my name or the name of any other host with @PH in front of their name, and we will help you! * Guest36372 (java@=vqvgemddffl-17-162-578-529.midtn.chartertn.net) has joined #thedogden PHFasDog: Dr. Tobin practices in Meriden, CT, where he has his clinic, but he also does housecalls and telephone consultations. His main treatment modalities are homeopathy, nutrition and herbs. He did his veterinary studies in Munich, Germany, and has been in private practice since 1987. * Guest12271 is now known as Nico PHFasDog: He is a past president of the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association, and has current membership in that organization, as well as the Academy for Veterinay Homeopathy, and the Veterinary Botanical Medical Association. He has been published in the International Journal for Veterinary Homeopathy, the Journal of the AVMA, Veterinary Forum, and numerous lay publications. PHFasDog: Now on behalf of all of us at PetHobbyist.com, I'd like to introduce Dr Tobin! Dr. Tobin will open with a few remarks and then he will take your questions. Welcome, Dr. Tobin! DrTobin: Thank you all! DrTobin: Since I'm not sure what background each of you has in homeopathy, I'd like to start right out with your questions, if that's ok. Snicker: konaandmeg PHMowgli: For tonights chat if you have a ? for Dr. Tobin all you need to do is type ? we will keep a list and when we call your name just type your question out and Dr. Tobin will answer you. jasperdane: ? rewhisperbaby: ? Mariasmom: ? MIckey4Paws: ? iluvmybully: ? chia: ? PHMowgli: que is jasperdane Zadee: ? DrTobin: go ahead, Jasperdane! jasperdane: If I go to a vet and he puts my dog on antibiotics dogmother11: No question, but just a warm welcome from a fellow (Faifield) CT resident! jasperdane: then I find a remedy to use do I carryon with antibiotic treatment? DrTobin: you continue the antibiotic until I see some improvement from the remedy DrTobin: because that's the only way you'll KNOW if your remedy is actually working Kaibic: I have a two year old Doberman with reoccurring pyoderma affecting his paws. I feed a raw, grainless diet. Could I use any specfic herbs for staph infections? jasperdane: Then can I discontinue the antibiotics? PHMowgli: Please refrain from speaking until called on DrTobin: jasperdane, look, the only way to tell if you have the correct remedy is if you're getting improvement DrTobin: if you don't have any symptoms, or if all the symptoms have been cleared up by an antibiotic or anything else DrTobin: then you have no way of knowing if your remedy is actually helping the animal poppym: hi everyone DrTobin: so to take this a step further DrTobin: if you have a severe problem, say you have severe itching DrTobin: your dog is going crazy scratching * Guest62842 is now known as angel416 DrTobin: and you put it on a steroid jasperdane: OK DrTobin: don't stop the steroid necessarily, IF the steroid has cleared up all the symptoms you're not going to KNOW if a remedy you then choose is going to help chieftan: are we getting close to starting? DrTobin: but if there are some symptoms, the dog is scratching a little bit, say, you can give the remedy and see if the scratching stops completely shandaepp: ? DrTobin: next question :) PHMowgli: que is rewhisperbaby rewhisperbaby: What do you feel is a good relation between a traditional treatment protocal and a homeopathic treatment protocal for a longterm illness, such as kidney failure, diabetes or cancer? rewhisperbaby: Sorry, it's long Kaibic: ? DrTobin: rewhisperbaby, can I clarify, do you mean specifically homeopathic, or holistic in general? MaggiesMom: ? rewhisperbaby: I'm currently dealing with a holistic, but can't say that's a great relationship yet DrTobin: do you mean a holistic or homeopathic protocol? DrTobin: hang on... DrTobin: I need to explain the difference rewhisperbaby: i'm open to both DrTobin: homeopathy is based on the principle that like cures like DrTobin: what a substance can cause in a normal healthy individual DrTobin: it can cure in an individual that is showing those symptoms DrTobin: for example DrTobin: take a bee sting DrTobin: if you're stung by a bee you develop DrTobin: swelling, stinging sensation, edema in the area PHFasDog: We are observing protocol chat, at any time during the chat, you may type a ? if you have a question, and a ! if you have a comment. The host will add your name to the queue, and you will be called on, in order. Please do not chat into the room until you have been called on! DrTobin: now, if you find a patient that has swelling and stinging sensation and edema, a few other sthings associate with bee stings normally that is NOT caused by a bee sting DrTobin: if you give the remedy apis, which is made from the honeybee, this will alleviate the swelling, the pain, the stinging sensation, the edema, usually in a very short time DrTobin: that is homeopathy wichesbrew: ? DrTobin: holistic medicine DrTobin: is taking into account everything that concerns that animal in that situation DrTobin: homeopathy is one modality under the greater expression of holistic rewhisperbaby: ok, i think i'm more looking for holistic, so i think i'm in the wrong chat, quite sorry DrTobin: no, that's ok DrTobin: I am a holistic veterinarian DrTobin: conventional medicine is very good for emergency situations DrTobin: first aid, and bacterial infections DrTobin: that's really where it's strong points are DrTobin: but to treat the underlying causes of chronic diseases DrTobin: conventional medicine is very deficient DrTobin: if you have a critical instance DrTobin: if a cat with kidney failure DrTobin: becomes dehydrated, you need to give fluids DrTobin: but to turn around the kidney failure itself DrTobin: conventional medicine just doesn't do it DrTobin: next question :) PHMowgli: Maria's mom go ahead Mariasmom: what is your feeling about using nosodes in lieu of parvo & distemper vaccs?? Do you use them in your practice? DrTobin: Yes, I do use them PHMowgli: For tonights chat if you have a ? for Dr. Tobin all you need to do is type ? we will keep a list and when we call your name just type your question out and Dr. Tobin will answer you. DrTobin: and I find that they work quite well * poppym (java@=knOPN4G912.ipt.aol.com) Quit (QUIT: User exited) DrTobin: but I would not say that they are 100 percent protective DrTobin: but then, conventional vaccines are also not 100 percent effective PHTomcat: ? Mariasmom: do you recommend no vaccs or nosodes? DrTobin: more to the point of what I'd say about vaccines DrTobin: there are some vaccines that seem to be quite effective DrTobin: there are other vaccines that are pretty much worthless DrTobin: in any case DrTobin: if an animal has been vaccinated once DrTobin: it should be protected, if the vaccine did any good DrTobin: same as if a dog got over parvo DrTobin: it's not going to come down with parvo again DrTobin: it has the antibodies and is protected against parvo jeffb: ? DrTobin: a vaccine to be any good, should do the same thing, to protect you DrTobin: if you have a vaccine that is not reliable, doesn't provide lifelong protection, then you don't have ANY reliable protection DrTobin: so if you vaccinated your animal once DrTobin: either it has the protection it has the protection it needs for the rest of its life DrTobin: and doesn't need another vaccination, OR DrTobin: it doesn't have reliable protection and therefore DrTobin: it doesn't make sense to re-vaccinate DrTobin: because the vaccine is not reliable PHFasDog: Those of you who are listed as “Guest”, you need to create a nickname. If you entered the room through the direct link (the java link), then you need to simply type the nickname you want in the space where you normally type chat, and then hit "enter." DrTobin: I recommend nosodes instead of vaccines, but most of the time when someone gets a pet, it's already been vaccinated DrTobin: I recommend against revaccinating DrTobin: because if the memory cells are there DrTobin: any furether exposure will cause the immune system to flood the body with antibodies DrTobin: if you have high levels of circulating antibodies, it can cause problems in other organs DrTobin: next question please :) PHMowgli: Micky4paws go ahead MIckey4Paws: Hi Dr. Tobin. My 3 year old indoor only cat has asthma. She is on a raw diet, only kitten vaccines. Her symptoms are coughing. We had her on Lycopodium 30C which helped but didn't take it away completely. Have you ever had success in treating a cat with asthma? DrTobin: Yes DrTobin: this is where homeopathy is very useful DrTobin: but of course, I would need more information than just that DrTobin: to come up with a remedy MIckey4Paws: Do you do long distance consults? daisymaemom: ? DrTobin: what we're looking for are the peculiarities of the animal DrTobin: something that you would not expect a cat to do DrTobin: but that THIS cat does DrTobin: for instance, does the cat like to play in water DrTobin: this is peculiar for a cat DrTobin: we call these "strange, rare, peculiar' symptoms DrTobin: these are often the key to finding the correct remedy DrTobin: yes, I do phone consultations MIckey4Paws: So things the cat likes or doesn't like would be included in peculiarities? DrTobin: Yes, also things the cat does or doesn't do foster: foster DrTobin: peculiarities about the problem itself ChowChowLuv: ? DrTobin: when does it arise, what also occurs at the time of an attack, what might have led to the attack MIckey4Paws: Yes, when she wakes up, she has an attack mostly DrTobin: my office number is 203-238-9863 PHMowgli: Iluvmybully go ahead MIckey4Paws: Great, thank you so much PHMowgli: For tonights chat if you have a ? for Dr. Tobin all you need to do is type ? we will keep a list and when we call your name just type your question out and Dr. Tobin will answer you. iluvmybully: i have a 15 mth bullmastiff who happens to get re occuring itchy skin my vet has no idea what else to try i really don't want to put him on setriorids do u have any suggestions? DrTobin: maybe the next person is ready? PHFasDog: Those of you who are listed as “Guest”, you need to create a nickname. If you entered the room through the direct link (the java link), then you need to simply type the nickname you want in the space where you normally type chat, and then hit "enter." Khamsin: ? DrTobin: first of all, you need to see WHEN he first started getting itchy Dax: ? DrTobin: one thing that I find is often associated with skin problems DrTobin: is hypothyroidism DrTobin: has the dog been checked for thyroid problems? Renegade: Dawnie57 iluvmybully: no he hasnt DrTobin: well, you might start there PHMowgli: Chia you are next chia: Hi, my one year old raw fed Border Collie pup had all his puppy shots etc as scheduled but now that we are approaching the 1 year, 4 mo. booster date & I have been researching so much, I am scared to boost. My vet listened to my concerns, & he is open to every 3 years after the initial booster but your previous answer here stated how if the vaccines took initially they are good for life but iluvmybully: thanx * Surat is now known as pk DrTobin: a couple of other things that can be done are one, put the dog on a diet of fresh meat and try adding some Omega 3 fatty acids to the diet iluvmybully: raw meat? DrTobin: yes, raw meat DrTobin: raw meat and bones diet DrTobin: will take care of a lot of problems iluvmybully: ohh ok like what kind of meatand what kind of bones? DrTobin: chia, are you talking about rabies, or distemper and parvo? iluvmybully: is there any thing thta i can put on his coat? DrTobin: on the coat? no iluvmybully: raw hamburger? DrTobin: so far as meat and bones, beef is good DrTobin: don't use raw pork iluvmybully: how much? danelover: iluvmybully, what is your email addy, I can send you some links on rawdiets iluvmybully: a.lulofs@attbi.com chia: how does one know if the vaccines took if titers are not always accurate? I really am in a quandry with this because Iwant to do what is right. He had no problems with the puppy vaccines except for a watery eyes a couple of months after the rabies vaccine . I am scared to vaccinate any more but the vet thought he should have the 4 booster of killed vaccines. Help!!! DrTobin: iluvmybully, I'd recommend you get one of the books by Dr. Billinghurst on the Bones and Raw Foods BARF diet Billjohn5: ? DrTobin: chia, the only vaccination that an adult dog should get is rabies, once every three years DrTobin: and that's for LEGAL purposes chia: are u saying that in March not do any at all?? Rabies isn't law here in Canada DrTobin: Chia, don't do any then chia: I thought lepto & distemper were still a problem PHMeowzers: ? DrTobin: chia, in the last fifty years iluvmybully: a.lulofs@attbi.com DrTobin: we probably caused more problems for our animals DrTobin: by overvaccinating them and giving them poor diets, than any natural problems they may face chia: but how do I know his antibodies are fine? Should I titer? DrTobin: chia... he's been vaccinated once or several times? chia: He had all the ones at different intervals till the final rabies at 6 months DrTobin: then he probably has fairly high antibodies and research has shown that over time these antibodies do not significantly decline DrTobin: they may decline in the short run DrTobin: but sometime later they may rise, they fluctuate chia: if they were killed & not live does that make them as effective? DrTobin: but if they've ever BEEN high, then the memory cells are there danelover: ? chia: I'm sorry to ask so much but this is a hard topic & so many opinions..I do not want to vaccinate anymore!! DrTobin: well, IF their immune system has ever reacted to a vaccine DrTobin: then any further exposure would produce very high levels of antibodies DrTobin: then don't chia: thankyou so much..I will not vaccinate but I am in love with my pup DrTobin: :) PHMowgli: Zadee you are up Zadee: My bitch has Scirrhous Adenocarcinoma. I have been told that traditional treatments do not work on this type of cancer. We are working on a cancer diet. Do you have any other suggestions for fighting cancer. DrTobin: good luck with your dog! DrTobin: there are numerous protocols for cancer DrTobin: first, take the dog off ALL carbohydrates Zadee: I've already done that DrTobin: second, give high doses of vitamins A and D Zadee: done PHFasDog: Folks, we will be taking no new people into the que for questions. DrTobin: put the dog on effective immune stimulants Zadee: she is on antioxidant supplements with antixidant vitamins DrTobin: give IP-6, coQ-10, soy isoflavones DrTobin: and whey protein isolate DrTobin: I would start there and see how the dog reacts Zadee: OK - thanks - any suggestions other than diet Zadee: Thanks for the supplement suggestions PHMowgli: Kaibic you are up DrTobin: Zadee, there are a lot of effective treatments in there! Kaibic: My Doberman has been battling demodex and interdigital pyoderma most of his life. I feed a raw diet, excellent condition when he doesn't have an outbreak. I know there has to be an underlying condition as to why, I had a thyroid panel done last Friday. I don't know the results yet. How do you feel about thyroid medications? Are there any long term effects? DrTobin: diet and supplements are very powerful! Zadee: OK - thanks DrTobin: Kaibic, thyroid medications are often necessasry DrTobin: there's no way to stimulate the thyroid if it's been mostly destroyed DrTobin: but as far as treating demodex DrTobin: you want to reduce the number of mites so the dog is more comfortable DrTobin: secondly you want to stimulate the dog's immune system to fight them off internally Kaibic: His demodex is gone now but still has pyoderm DrTobin: a good immune stimulant and Omega 3 fatty acids will help DrTobin: well, the Omega 3s will help that DrTobin: for bacterial infections, one good thing to use is Olive Leaf Extract Kaibic: Good immune stimulates like the dog fighting cancer listed above? Kaibic: Okau DrTobin: For homeopathy, you would need to take the complete case DrTobin: ok, next question :) PHMowgli: shandaepp ask your question shandaepp: where do you stand on mixing modalities? It is my understanding, that if one uses Homeopathy, that should be the only Kaibic: thansk shandaepp: modality used at that time! DrTobin: shandaepp, well, in theory any modality should be able to treat any condition DrTobin: in practice DrTobin: no one knows EVERYTHING about any one modality DrTobin: we find through experience DrTobin: and the knowledge that's been passed on to us by practicioners of the past DrTobin: that certain modalities are perhaps better at treating certain problems DrTobin: for instance, acupuncture has a good reputation for treating joint problems DrTobin: it can treat many other things DrTobin: but the way it's been taught by IVIS DrTobin: International Veterinary Acupuncture Society IVAS DrTobin: they are very effective at treating joint problems DrTobin: chiropractic is also very good DrTobin: there is no problem with using both of those together DrTobin: as well as diet, homeopathy, reflexology DrTobin: not everyone can be an expert in all areas of all modalities DrTobin: next question :) PHMowgli: maggiesmom go ahead MaggiesMom: Multi questions(if that's okay): In reading about vaccinosis lately, sites say the antibody is just a theory, never proven... If an animal has been vaccinated, do you automatically work on the vaccinosis first, or only if there are symptoms of vaccinosis? MaggiesMom: How do you repertorize a dog for finding a constitutional remedy? DrTobin: Two questions, one answer DrTobin: not every animal that has been vaccinated shows symptoms of vaccinosis DrTobin: so only those who are showing symptoms need to be treated for the symptoms DrTobin: you need to look at the problems that the dog has DrTobin: the symptoms, the characteristics, the personality DrTobin: the likes, dislikes DrTobin: and along with the problem, you want to look at what are called concomittants DrTobin: other problems or symptoms or unique traits that go together with your symptoms DrTobin: next question :) PHMowgli: wichesbrew go ahead wichesbrew: What do you recommend as a heartworm preventative? Black Walnut? Preventative for Lyme Disease? DrTobin: For Lyme disease, I use a Lyme Disease nosode DrTobin: Borrelia burgdorfi nosode DrTobin: for heartworm I use the heartworm nosode, but I have heard that black walnut is effective, but I have not tried wichesbrew: Is that given daily? chia: ? DrTobin: no, I give all the nosodes once a day for one week, then once a week for one month, then once every six months * Guest88498 (java@=tT5-9fvoe736-39.nas5.columbus1.oh.us.da.qwest.net) has joined #thedogden DrTobin: that is how I give all nosodes DrTobin: next question PHMowgli: Tomcat you are up : ) PHTomcat: Dr. Tobin I have a 2 year old cat who was diagnosed with multicentric Lymphoma. She is on her final treatment and I was wondering if there were some hemopathic treatment that would help her with her nausea. PHTomcat: Her problem is she will not eat anything. DrTobin: you can try the homeopathic remedy ipecac DrTobin: some other things that often help DrTobin: in conditions of nausea DrTobin: are ginger DrTobin: licorice too DrTobin: but you would probably have to make a tea and syringe it into the cat's mough DrTobin: mouth DrTobin: they work well DrTobin: next question? PHMowgli: Jeffb go ahead ; ) PHTomcat: Make a tea out of each of them? DrTobin: Tomcat yes PHTomcat: Thanks Dr. DrTobin: you're welcome Tomcat. Good luck with your cat DrTobin: next question? PHMowgli: jeff? PHMowgli: Ok daisymaemom go ahead daisymaemom: should a dog with a history of a grade 2 mast cell tumor now in remission be able to get a rabies vaccine exermption? I have been refused by my holistic vet. DrTobin: I would think that it should DrTobin: vaccines are only licenses for use in healthy animals daisymaemom: is there any research proving a possible link? DrTobin: is the vet saying the dog is now CURED of mast cell tumors? DrTobin: I don't know of any research, but you should not vaccinate an unhealthy animal daisymaemom: she has not had a recurrence since removal in a ug 200 DrTobin: 200...? daisymaemom: august 2000 DrTobin: do you feel that your dog is healthy? DrTobin: if the dog is healthy, there is no LEGAL reason not to give a rabies vaccine daisymaemom: i am scared to death to have vaccine. last tumor was 3 mos after 3 yr rabies DrTobin: I think you have good reason to be worried PHMowgli: chowchowluv go ahead ChowChowLuv: I breed and show chows and have three of them. Recently, one of them has started licking the air. He seems to be in good health and has plenty of energy. I feed a BARF diet and all of them eat well and play well. Any ideas as to what may cause this and what I can do to stop it? I supplement with Vit C, E, CLO, FlaxOil, and Apple Cider Vinegar and give digestive enzymes. ChowChowLuv: I worry about bloat and torsion as his mother had this problem. DrTobin: he licks the air... kind of like snapping at flies? DrTobin: this is generally considered a type of petit mal siezure ChowChowLuv: No - like licking the air. DrTobin: this is a male? ChowChowLuv: He is totally aware and stops if I show that I've noticed. DrTobin: he could possibly be scenting ChowChowLuv: Yes, he is a male three years of age. DrTobin: this could be treated very well homepathically ChowChowLuv: He does it almost every night now. ChowChowLuv: What do you suggest? DrTobin: but a cause of this, if I'm interpreting it correctly, is that the dog is trying to sense pheremones in the air DrTobin: I would suggest you work with a homepathic veterinarian DrTobin: there is no single remedy for licking the air DrTobin: in fact, with all of these things ChowChowLuv: OK - that is very interesting. Thank you for that - I have a homeopathic vet but have not asked him about this. I will do that tomorrow. PHMowgli: jeffb your turn jeffb: What book is currently on your nightstand? DrTobin: we're trying to treat the WHOLE ANIMAL.... a dog that has amongst other symptoms and characteristics, the symptom of licking the air DrTobin: we are not treating simply air licking DrTobin: a homeopath would need to know much more ChowChowLuv: Thank you so much!! DrTobin: jeffb, LOL DrTobin: at the moment I'm doing some reading in an old eclectic herbal text DrTobin: by Ellingwood jeffb: thanks PHMowgli: Khamsin you are up Khamsin: I have a 4lb, 10 year old Yorkie that has allergies. He has had a problem this past year with wet lungs. He has been taking 12.5mg of Salix. If we take him off the meds then he gets worse with resperitory infections. Do you have any suggestions? For his allergies I am giving him Benedryl. DrTobin: Khamsin, the first remedy that comes to mind for very small animals is arsenicumm album DrTobin: (homeopathic) DrTobin: it's one of the remedies that is useful for asthma DrTobin: but I would look for further symptoms and characteristics before recomemending a remedy DrTobin: next question, or follow up? PHMowgli: billjohn5 go ahead Billjohn5: Earlier you mentioned not feeding pork as part of a raw diet. I'm wondering why. DrTobin: Pigs sometimes carry a disease called "Pseudo-rabies," and that virus is fatal to a lot of other animals including dogs and cats DrTobin: next question or follow up "_ DrTobin: :) Billjohn5: My research indicates that is killed by prolonged freezing. Do you have contrary experience. PHMowgli: meowzwers your turn PHMeowzers: You stated that you feel we overvaccinate our dogs? Do you feel the same way about cats? Are there any vaccinations that an adult cat should still be having? DrTobin: Viruses are not killed by freezing DrTobin: Meowzers, again, rabies to keep the cat legal. PHMowgli: danelover go ahead PHMeowzers: Are you okay with the 3 yr type or do you feel that one should stick with the Purvax type DrTobin: I'd use the three year PHMeowzers: Thank you DrTobin: I prefer vaccinating as seldom as possible PHMeowzers: Me too :) danelover: I have a 4y/o hypothyroid danexlab. DrTobin: and Purevax has not been out long enough to make me feel confident that might not cause the fibrosarcomas as well DrTobin: danelover, ok danelover: she has been fed a raw diet and successfully restimulated with UNDA 3xs danelover: is there anything I should be concerned with to keep her off permanent meds? DrTobin: what is UNDA? danelover: It is a hollistic product given to me by my vet danelover: used in humans as well DrTobin: I don't know what to say, I think you'd have to ask your vet... one thing that sometimes does work is thytrophin by Standard Process danelover: diet wise and supplement wise would you suggest anything? * Traffy (java@=gudidrnkqwc9SvjlH741.eugn.uswest.net) Quit (QUIT: User exited) DrTobin: this will work, it's a glandular, and it works if the thyroid is not completely destroyed DrTobin: thyroiditis is an autoimmune disease DrTobin: and the thytrophin works as a sponge or magnet for the antibodies that DrTobin: woudl otherwise destroy the dog's own thyroid gland DrTobin: thank you, everyone, for coming tonight! danelover: thanks PHFasDog: On behalf of PetHobbyist CEO Jeff Barringer, CatHobbyist site coordinator PHAbymom, Christie Keith, myself, and everyone at PetHobbyist.com, thank |
