Schedules & Transcripts PetHobbyist.com Main Chat Week Schedule Reptile & Amphibian Chats Dog Chats Cat Chats Bird Chats Fish & Aquarium Chats Small Mammal/Exotic Pet Chats Subscribe to our free email newsletters about pets and animal issues Email Address:

DogHobbyist.com
Debra Eldredge, DVM, and Magaret H. Bonham
Cancer and Your Pets
March 2, 2005

PHChristy: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at pethobbyist.com, I'm very pleased to welcome Deb Eldredge, DVM, and Magaret H. Bonham to our Seventh Annual Chat Week to discuss their forthcoming book "Cancer And Your Pet: The Complete Guide to the Latest Research, Treatments, and Options."

PHChristy: Debra Eldredge, DVM is an award-winning veterinarian and writer in upstate New York. She graduated from the Cornell Veterinary College and was the first recipient ever of the "Gentle Doctor Award" voted on by clinical faculty for the student who provided the best care for patients. She works in private practice but has also served as the veterinarian for the award-winning shelter the Humane Society of Huron Valley in Ann Arbor, Michigan. She has also worked with the Utica Zoo. Dr. Eldredge is the author of the award-winning book, Pills for Pets. She has been a columnist for Good Dog!, Catsumer Reports, Dogs in Review, The Corgi Cryer, OK Pet Gazette and her writing has appeared in Dog World, Ranch Dog Trainer, OffLead, and Kuvasz Times.

PHChristy: Margaret H. Bonham is an award-winning professional freelance writer and sled dog racer in Colorado. She has written eight books including Complete Idiots Guide to Dog Health and Nutrition, Complete Idiots Guide to Labrador Retrievers, The Complete Guide to Mutts, Soft Coated Wheaten Terriers, Introduction to Dog Agility, The Simple Guide to Getting Active with Your Dog and Your Siberian Husky's Life. Her work has appeared in Dog Fancy, Dog World, Your Dog, Dog and Kennel, Pet Life, Natural Pet, and Mushing Magazine.

PHChristy: Thank you so much for being here tonight, Dr. Deb and Maggie, and welcome! Please go ahead with any opening comments you might have.

MaggieBonham: Deb?

DrDeb_nr: I think the most important thing to remember if your pet gets cancer is that YOU are their best advocate

DrDeb_nr: Also, each case should be looked at individually

MaggieBonham: I want to thank you, Christie for having us. And Deb is absolutely right. You are your pet's best advocate

MaggieBonham: Not all cancers are the same and each case depends on the individual

MaggieBonham: That was one thing I think you must take with you when considering cancer

PHMeowzers: NYC, go ahead with the first question

NYC_NYIfan: Last year I lost two cats to cancer in a short period of time. One I had adopted only a month earlier. He suddenly started losing weight -- first my vet thought he had fatty liver but she had me bring him to Animal Medical Center and the sonogram tehre showed cancer of pancreas and liver with ascites. They said it could also have been in his brain (one eye was turned). Is it normal for cancer to just come up and bloom in such a short period of time?

MaggieBonham: ga

PHMeowzers: sorry Maggie -- I didn't mean to step on your last statement!

DrDeb_nr: both Maggie & I have lost pets to cancer so we understand the heartbreak

MaggieBonham: np

PHKeeper: ?

PHChristy: ?

MaggieBonham: It's very very difficult to lose a pet to cancer

Therese:?

NYC_NYIfan: I didn't even have more than a few weeks with him, as the first night (when I adopted them), it was obvious he was blocked and he was at my vet's for over a week

DrDeb_nr: cancers may become apparent very quickly - usually they have been developing for quite a while but no clinical signs - you need about 75% of the liver messed up for liver signs to show up - ga

MaggieBonham: But yes, some cancers are so rapid, they can kill quickly --ga

Liz77: ?

NYC_NYIfan: What I am also worried about is that his littermate sister, came to me also with a liver problem and I am wondering if she is more likely to develop cancer

NYC_NYIfan: she has had elevated ALT (SGPT) and her sonogram showed her liver is "dense"

NYC_NYIfan: thanks, ga

PHMeowzers: Munchie ga

MaggieBonham: I would watch her carefully because if there were a genetic predisposition, you could run the risk -- ga
MunchieScrunchie: We just brought one of our foster cats into emergency today. He is 4 and 1/2 mos old. Had bleeding in the mouth (no injuries) and a 10% blood volume....platlet count of 9. The bleeding was more like oozing from the gums. Kitten was transfused and his count went to 14. Now we test overnight to see what his count does. Vet is unsure what this is....said possible genetic problem. Could this possibly be indicitive of a type of cancer? Felv/fiv test was negative as was a panleukopania test. Thank you /ga

DrDeb_nr: There can be genetic predispositions to cancers - such as immune system weaknesses, but it may nto follow that she will get or has cancer too. Cosndier environment as well - things they were both exposed to ga

MaggieBonham: good point, Dbe --ga

DrDeb_nr: On the bleeding kitten, unlikely to be cancer at that age, but possible ga

OneLittleRugRat: ?

MaggieBonham: <nods> /ga

PHMeowzers: Keeper, GA

PHKeeper: Are we finding more cancer now in our pets or are we learning more and faster what our pets are sick with? ga

DrDeb_nr: I think we *may* be finding mroe cancer, but that is partly due to the fact that oru pets are living longer & have better care for other problems - such as parasites & disease ga

PHKeeper: tu ga

PHMeowzers: Christy, you are next, ga

PHChristy: It seems to me that I've been hearing more and more about lymphoma lately - in cats as well as dogs. Do you think there's an increase, and can you make any comments about the prognosis for a dog and a cat diagnosed with lymphoma?

MaggieBonham: I think that because our pets are living longer, we may be seeing more cancer -- my dogs live regularly from 13-17 years and yes, many get cancer. But how long ago was it when we thought large dogs only lived til 10? -- ga

PHChristy: ga

MaggieBonham: I also feel that the pets are exposed to more environmental stresses that may cause cancer -- ga

PHKeeper: tu ga

MaggieBonham: Lymphoma is a "good cancer" -- they can do a lot for dogs with it. Dogs can live a year and a half or more with it

DrDeb_nr: Depending on the exact type of lymphoma, this may be one of the "better" cancers. We had a cute Terrier mix in our practice named Lola who went 4 yrs with lymphoma - & she was 10 or 12 to start. On the other hand, my parent's pit bull mix died in 4 months. Lots of variability. I do think (supposition here) that the lymphomas & hemangiosarcomas are on the rise ga

MaggieBonham: -ga

MaggieBonham: I suspect that some of my dogs have had undiagnosed hermangiosarcomas -- ga

PHChristy: do you feel lymphoma is a cancer that responds best to alternative approaches, conventional approaches, or a combo?

MaggieBonham: My sister's dog was diagnosed with it on June 1 -- by June 20, they had to put him down -ga

PHChristy: sorry, ga <G>

DrDeb_nr: I would say a combo - lymphomas often do very well with chemo regimens, but the alternatives often support the immune system as well & together they are synergistic ga

PHChristy: thanks, ga!

MaggieBonham: I would say a combo -- but only if your oncologist agrees with the therapy -- some therapies may actually undo what the oncologist is trying to accomplish -- ga

DrDeb_nr: Maggie has an important poitn there - make sur eyour vet(s) know ALL the things you are doing - some may counteract each other ga

MaggieBonham: an example of this is antioxidants -- some therapies intentionally create free radicals to kill the cancer -- ga

PHMeowzers: Liz you are next, ga

PHMeowzers: What is your feeling about neuroblastomas or say Wiilms, human pediatric killers - are there comparable canine diagnoses? What, if so, treatment would you recommend? /ga

PHMeowzers: That is Liz's question -- she inadvertnetly sent it just to me

Liz77: What is your feeling about neuroblatoma or Wilms, pediatric killers are those comparable to canine diagnoses?

MaggieBonham: deb?

MaggieBonham: ga

DrDeb_nr: Wilms is nephroblastoma isn't it? I have seen this in dogs - an Afghan & 2 Rotties. One Rottie did veyr well with early surgery, the other two died. A dear human friend of ours died with this - Hunter Atkinson at age 13. My daughter has the Aussie pup he chose from his ga Mom's litter that he gave Kate before he died.

DrDeb_nr: Sorry, the ga should have been at the end ga

PHChristy: I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, Deb

Liz77: MNo, it is not.......Wilms is a unique tumor, focues on the kidney - neuroblastoma occurs along the neural crest in embroyo

DrDeb_nr: Human disease are often named after people, while in vet med we stick to the disease - so these things sometimes get confused. ga

PHChristy: Liz, she said NEPHROblastoma... kidney tumor

PHChristy: let's go with the next question :)

PHMeowzers: We only have 2 folks in the queue, if any of you have questions, please type a "?" to the screen

Liz77: my apologies

PHMeowzers: Therese you are next

Therese:I've been bumped so many times, hope I'm not repeating somebody's question <g> ...but...what role do you think feeding a raw diet has in cancer prevention?

NYC_NYIfan: ?

MaggieBonham: do you want my opinion? --ga

Therese:Yes! ga

MaggieBonham: Well, I think that fresh food is good, but it has been my experience that as long as you feed a BALANCED diet that is free from spoiled food, your pet will be healthy --a

MaggieBonham: ga

DrDeb_nr: To be honest, I dont' think there is definitive proof at this time that it helps - that doesn't mean a raw diet might not help, just that no one has clearly shown that. There are many possible problems with raw diets (with virtually all diets) & if you arne't VERY careful you can cause some big problems Certainly top notch nutrition is important ga

PHChristy: Therese, did you want to ask a follow up question?

MaggieBonham: so, if your pet eats raw, that's fine -- just be sure it contains the proper nutrition for your pet. I've fed raw and premium dog food and I honestly saw no difference in longevity -ga

DrDeb_nr: My answer looks funny to me - let me try this again - feeding a raw diet is not a guarantee that your dog wont' get cancer.

Therese:ok, you just answered my next question <s> ga

DrDeb_nr: Duh, forgot the ga

PHMeowzers: Rugrat, go ahead

MaggieBonham: lol -ga

OneLittleRugRat: I lost my golden a year ago to bile duct cancer within one week. Unfortunately, due to the short amount of time from sickness to death he wasn't allowed to be comfortable. What can we do to make them more comfortable when it's short term or long term for that matter?

OneLittleRugRat: ga

MaggieBonham: Talk to your vet about pain management -- there is no reason your pet can't be confortable during this. If not, then you have to think about what is best for your pet --ga

lunacroon_nr: ?

Valkyrie: ?

DrDeb_nr: My guess is, he wasn't able to get comfortable because you & the vets were still trying to figure out exactly what was wrong. A bile duct is small, so it can quickly get closed off with a cancer. pain meds, hospice care in general are all improving for our pets - ga

PHChristy: ?

OneLittleRugRat: ga

PHMeowzers: NYC, go ahead

NYC_NYIfan: The other cat I lost to cancer, was 18; in Oct '03 she developed a swelling alongside one eye ; that developped into pressure behind the eye. Tumors wiped out her eyesight in November and spread to her mouth; she adjusted quickly to the blindness, but the mouth tumors made her so miserable I ended up having her helped to the Bridge 3 weeks later. Could that type of cancer have been in the body for a long time and only started to cause problems when it got into the head? She was in otherwise good health for a cat her age; had early CRF. ga

DrDeb_nr: Myelomas near the eye in cats can be fairly benign for a long time & then suddenly get stimulated to grow & change. It probably started out in her head - ga

MaggieBonham: <nods> -ga

PHAbymom: ?

PHMeowzers: lunacroon go ahead

lunacroon_nr: my 7 yr old husky mix just had a grade 1 malignant soft tissue sarcoma removed from her knee. Is there anything I can do to help prevent recurrance? ga

MaggieBonham: Did your husky have any other treatment other than surgery? -ga

lunacroon_nr: no ga

DrDeb_nr: First, see fi the biopsy had clear margins - meaning no sign of tumor left on histology (checkign with a microscope). Followup radiation may be indicated. Otherwise, your best bet is to keep her in the best health possible so her immune system is strong. ga

MaggieBonham: did it have good margins? --ga

MaggieBonham: oops -- deb asked that! --ga

lunacroon_nr: the report says it exhibited no natural borders ga

DrDeb_nr: See, great minds think alike! ga

MaggieBonham: I would also recommend maybe looking at some holistic treatments

MaggieBonham: -ga

MaggieBonham: And so do ours !

PHChristy: LOL

MaggieBonham: ga

lunacroon_nr: thank you I'll look into that ga

DrDeb_nr: I am not sure what they meant by "no natural borders" - that could mean they saw cancer at the edges. ga

PHMeowzers: Valkyrie, go ahead

Valkyrie: Most are familiar with the incidence of fibrosarcomas related to vaccines. Do feel that vaccines play any kind of role in the cause of other types of cancer, ie; lymphoma, leukemia, etc. ? ga

lunacroon_nr: there's a whole lot of stuff in the report but I don't understand :) ga

MaggieBonham: what I would look at would be doing something with pau d'arco or maybe red clover -- especially if you don't have anything else happening. --ga

Valkyrie: Do you feel...rather...sorry

MaggieBonham: You should talk to your vet and ask -- ga

PHMeowzers: woops lundacroon I thought you were through....

lunacroon_nr: oops sorry- through now :) ga

DrDeb_nr: Jean Dodds, DVM is one of the leaders in suggesting that vaccines or rather overuse of vaccines can lead to other immune problems - possibly even other cancers. ga

MaggieBonham: I'm not convinced that vaccines cause cancers besides fibrosarcomas but I do believe they may be overstressing the immune system and causing some autoimmune problems -ga

Valkyrie: Thank you.

Valkyrie: ga

PHMeowzers: christy ga

PHChristy: My question is about your book. Hospice care is something I'm very interested in for animals, also pain management issues for chronically ill dogs and cats. Are these issues you discuss in the book? And can you discuss a bit of an overview of what else you discuss in the book? Which I'm going to plug here... people can pre-order Dr. Deb and Maggie's book here, it will be out this summer: Cancer And Your Pet: The Complete Guide to the Latest Research, Treatments, and Options

MaggieBonham: thanks Christy! We talk quite a bit about caring for the cancer pet and how to determine if something is an emergency

DrDeb_nr: One thing we did was take a number of cancers & describe what signs you see, treatments, prognosis. Pain mgmt & hospice care are extremely important for cancer patients. ga

PHChristy: and I'd like the award for the most number of times I can use the word "discuss" in a sentence. <G>

MaggieBonham: ga

MaggieBonham: LOL

PHMeowzers: Abymom you are up

MaggieBonham: We talk about the common and uncommon cancers in pets

PHChristy: do you discuss integrative medicine?

Valkyrie: ?

PHAbymom: ::::: :passing Christy a thesaurus :::::::

MaggieBonham: were talk about diagnosis and what is coming up in terms of research

PHChristy: oh dear... discuss again <G>

PHAbymom: What can we do to prevent cancers developing... good nutrition... and?

MaggieBonham: We talk about holistic options and also about decision making --ga

PHChristy: thank you ga

DrDeb_nr: I think one of the things people forget is to know the normals for your pet - if you know how oftne she normally goes to the bathroom, her respiratory rate, etc. you will quickly become aware of changes - which may be subtle signs of pain or other problems. ga

MaggieBonham: good nutrition, preventing exposure to carcinogens, keeping your pet healthy, and early diagnosis

MaggieBonham: --ga

PHChristy: ?

PHAbymom: Thank you :)

Valkyrie: I am an RVT in a small animal general practice that isn't very progressive. We have a client with a 10 year old great dane that has been diagnosed with leukemia. Aside from the denial that first occurred with the initial diagnosis we are faced with the client making PTS appointments and cancelling..

DrDeb_nr: Back to preventign cancer - much of it is common sense even - avoid pesticides - there is a clear cut relationship between a certainherbicide & bladder cancer in Scotties. Avoid golf course (due to all the pesticides). Know your pet's normals & look for any changes, do a quick physical once a week ga

Valkyrie: the problem seems to be that they are dealing with good days/bad days

Valkyrie: as soon as the dog is lethargic and not eating they make the appointment, when the dog eats a bite or perks up they cancel.

Valkyrie: What would be the best way to help these clients cope?

Valkyrie: ga

DrDeb_nr: A 10 yr old Great Dane is an old dog. I tell people to see if the dog is ahving mroe good days or bad days, can she still do the things she loves to do, can you keep her painfree, can she eat & ambulate ga

MaggieBonham: Well, first to be sympathetic. I know it's hard when they cancel, but there's a certain amount of denial

MaggieBonham: the second thing is to have recommendations for the bad days

MaggieBonham: pain meds, suggestions for getting the dog to eat, etc

MaggieBonham: Great Danes aren't particularly long lived but they're commited to having their dog checked when there's a problem -- ga

PHChristy: how often do you feel that an animal doesn't get care that might save them, due to financial contraints? ga

MaggieBonham: hiya Steve!

PHChristy: oops, we lost Dr. Deb!

Valkyrie: Thank you both

PHChristy: Hi there Steve! This is Christie Keith!

MaggieBonham: oh no!

PHChristy: we'll wait for Deb to come back to go to my question!

PHChristy: here she is!

PHChristy: Deb, did you see my question or do you need it again?

PHMadameAlto: WB DrDeb!

stevedale_nr: Hi - Just wanted to come in to learn...though I know I'm late. I'm happy Dr. Deb and Maggie put this book together, and want to support that.

MaggieBonham: Well, I think more people are paying to have their dogs taken care of, but there are still many people who can't afford the care

DrDeb_nr: I think I need the ? again - sorry I didn't mean to leave :)) ga

NYC_NYIfan: !

jeffb: ?

MaggieBonham: What we want to emphasize is that there is help in the financial dept. From studies to actual organizations who can help finance it -ga

PHChristy: Deb, I was asking how often cost constraints prevent pets from getting treatment that might save them

MaggieBonham: Some studies will actually give all treatment free or low cost --ga

DrDeb_nr: I think cost is often a factor, but it doesn't always have to be. As Maggie mentions, you cna look for studies to get into, ask your vet about payment options, etc. ga

stevedale_nr: Did you mention pet insruance - and cancer riders...

PHChristy: CareCredit has been a literal lifesaver to a number of people I know

MaggieBonham: Also pet health insurance is a good idea -- but you must have the dog or cat covered before the pet gets the condition --ga

DrDeb_nr: Very few people in our area use pet insurance, but it is on the rise. Note that gettign insurance after a cancer diagnosis is pretty much impossible. ga

MaggieBonham: Steve -- you type faster than I!!! lol!

MaggieBonham: ga

PHChristy: and we have a host on our site who has had her cat;s cancer treatment paid for by imom.org

stevedale_nr: Personally, I'm also worried - first time I've said this publiclly - the best company, and biggest for insurance, VPI

PHChristy: which gives grants under very restrictive circumstances, but if you qualify it can be great

PHChristy: that is who I use

stevedale_nr: Once a company run by vets is no longer run by vets...and that - to me - is worrisome.

PHChristy: but they refused all my pets other than the youngest

PHMeowzers: Jeff did you have a quick question

PHChristy: Dr. Deb and Maggie, do you discuss insurance and financial aspects in the book?

MaggieBonham: well, Steve, it depends on what they pay and whether they cover the condition -- ga

jeffb: yes

MaggieBonham: Yes, we do -- ga

jeffb: I have 2 ridgebacks and have heard they have an elevated cancer risk - anything I should look out for?

PHMeowzers: ga Jeff

MaggieBonham: I have a list of insurance companies too --ga

MaggieBonham: hmmm -ga

DrDeb_nr: I recommend with ANY pet that you go over them weekly - pets have two of most body parts so you can compare. Look for changes on the body, in behavior, etc. ga

jeffb: thx

MaggieBonham: I agree -- ga

PHChristy: Everyone, that's all we have time for tonight. Dr. Deb and Maggie, on behalf of all of us at pethobbyist.com, thank you so much for being our guest tonight!

PHChristy: Thanks to Steve for stopping by also!

SamsSammy: Great forum, folks. I appreciate your insghts, Dr. Deb and Ms. Bonham.

stevedale_nr: Dr. Deb knows more than I certainly, but change in appetite is a big clue. Aso, a notably and severe decrease in activity level.

PHKeeper: Thank you Maggie and DrDeb for a very informative and wonder chat. And thanks for all that attended

PHMeowzers: Thank you so much!!!

PHMadameAlto: Thanks a bunch!

PHChristy: I hope you all join us tomorrow night for our Small Dog Panel at 10 PM Eastern Time right here

MaggieBonham: thank you for having us on --ga

DrDeb_nr: Thank YOU for inviting us! ga

Valkyrie: Nice meeting you both. :-)

PHMadameAlto: We learned a lot!

PHChristy: with Darlene Arden, Victor Joris, and Elaine Gewirtz

Rueger: Thank you!!!

stevedale_nr: Ohhhh no - wanted to say, thanks to Dr. D and Maggie for doing this book and we look forward to it!

PHMeowzers: come back again DrDeb and Maggie!

PHChristy: Me too, Steve!

PHChristy: thank you to everyone who came tonight!

MaggieBonham: I'm glad you did! I sure will be back! -- ga