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Darlene Arden
Elaine Gewirtz
Victor Joris
Small Dog Panel
March 3, 2005

PHChristy: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at doghobbyist.com, I'm very pleased to welcome Darlene Arden, Victor Joris, and Elaine Gewirtz as members of our panel discussion of Small Dogs at our Seventh Annual Chat Week!
steneko: Sometimes...we don't let them play together unsupervised and only then with 'compatible' groups

PHChristy: Darlene, who is here as petxpert, needs very little introduction on DogHobbyist, as she's been our guest before, discussing her books "The Irrepressible Toy Dog" and "The Angell Memorial Animal Hospital Book of Wellness and Preventive Care for Dogs." Darlene is an internationally recognized expert on the health, care, training, and behavior of toy dogs.

PHChristy: We welcome our other two panelists to DogHobbyist for the first time. Elaine Gewirtz is the author or co-author of many dog-related books, most notably "Pugs for Dummies" and "Your Yorkshire Terrier's Life." Elaine is a winner of the Dog Writers' Association of America's Maxwell Award for Excellence and the ASPCA Special Writing Award, and has lived with pugs all her life.

PHChristy: Last but most assuredly not least (as our many Shih Tzu Forum visitors will attest), is Victor Joris. Victor is the author of "The Complete Shih Tzu" an AKC judge of the Toy Breeds, as well as numerous other breeds and Best in Show. He is the author also of the history of the breed for the American Shih Tzu Club.

PHChristy: Darlene, Elaine, Victor... welcome and thank you for being here tonight! ga

VictorJoris: Thank you for having me!

petxpert: Thank you for the pleasure of being your company. :-)

ElaineGewirtz: Thank you for inviting me too

PHChristy: :)

Jan_nr: Eilaine I am reading your pug book now!!

PHChristy: I'd like each of our guests to share just a little about themselves and their dogs...

PHChristy: ga

PHChristy: who would like to go first? Darlene?

petxpert: I'm a full-time journalist, author, lecturer and for fun I produce and host a cable TV show in Massachusetts and I can be heard on Animal Radio Network just about weekly. My dogs have ranged from mixed heritage to purebred. My special interest is the little ones although...

petxpert: I love all dogs. And cats, too. :-)

PHChristy: Elaine... how about you? :)

petxpert: I'm an certified dog behavior consultant, a WCFO Judge, referee & advisory board member, and newly elected to the DWAA board. GA

ElaineGewirtz: I'm a total dog lover--all sizes and shapes--and a full-time writer specializing in dog topics. I live in Southern California and while I'm a Puglover we also have Dalmatians ga

PHChristy: Victor... your turn!

VictorJoris: I have been envolved with Shih Tzu for about 35 years. I have had multiple best in show in group winners. I wrote the Complete Shih Tzu and I write articles for most of the dog magazines.

VictorJoris: I judge all toy breeds , seven non sporting breeds and best in show.

VictorJoris: I also am the president of the Freeport kennel club.

VictorJoris: Currently I am dogless....but still love the breed.

VictorJoris: ga

petxpert: Victor is being too modest. He's working on a new book and I can't wait for it to be published!

PHChristy: Victor, which non sporting breeds do you judge? and please tell us about your new book!

VictorJoris: I judge poodles, bichon, lhasa's , frenchies, tibetian terriers and tibetian spaniels.

VictorJoris: The new book is about Affenpichers and Brussels Griffons and co-authored it with Amy Ferandez.

VictorJoris: It's an indept comphrehensive of both breeds.

VictorJoris: ga

PHChristy: Victor, that sounds great, two more great small dogs!

petxpert: He's also a 2-time Coty Award winning designer and I haven't been able to buy a decent thing to wear since he retired!

VictorJoris: giggle giggle

PHChristy: yes, when I was googling you three looking for gossip, I saw quite a few fashion mentions of Victor Joris!

PHChristy: I didn't at first think it was the same person, but then Darlene spilled the beans

PHChristy: So, Darlene, one of my favorite book titles of all time is "The Irrepressible Toy Dog." Did you come up with that yourself?

ElaineGewirtz: You're THAT Victor Joris? I'm in awe.

PHChristy: It seems to really sum up the nature of toy dogs.

VictorJoris: I don't know what to say about that...

petxpert: That was the working title for the book but I'm not sure the publisher did the right thing in keeping it...

PHChristy: <---feels faint being in the room with a BIS judge, the Coty awards may put me over the edge. <G>

PHChristy: Darlene, why is that? Don't you think toy dogs are in fact irrepressible?

PHChristy: ga

petxpert: Since Toy is, imo, any dog 20 lbs. or under, maybe it would have been better titled The Irrepressible Small Dog.

petxpert: Oh, they're extremely irrepressible! LOL GA

PHChristy: LOL

PHChristy: Having dogs of more than a hundred pounds who are routinely challenged by toy dogs, I do know you're right about that!

petxpert: That was, in fact, the best way I could think of to describe them.

petxpert: ga

PHChristy: Elaine, do you feel that pugs have that same "toy dog" personality? ga

Skaket: ?

PHMowgli: For all our chatters if you would like to ask one of our panel a question just post a ? if you want to make a comment post a ! and we will call on you in turn!!

ElaineGewirtz: Not entirely. They're very amiable and welcome other dogs ga

PHChristy: Skaket ga

Skaket: Darlene, may I ask abuot your television show in MA? I'm there during the summer months.

Cackle: ?

willowrose_nr: ?

petxpert: Elaine, I have a lot of Pug friends and they're very funny -- that, to me, is also irrepressible. <G>

DnDShihTzu: ?

ElaineGewirtz: They have a great sense of humor and enjoy laughing at themselves

PHMowgli: so far the que is Skaket, Cackle, and willowrose, and DnD

petxpert: It's on cable access. It's called "Creatively Speaking." It's about the creative process. I have authors, artists, musicans as guest but I will also find a way to do things that are animal related. For example

Chilys: ?

PHChristy: for what it's worth, no pug has ever challenged one of my deerhounds <G> ga

Anastasia2226: ?

jeffb: ?

Skaket: Thank you, Darlene...I'll be looking for it.

petxpert: For the next show my guest is Emma Parsons. We'll talk about her new book and have dogs in the studio. Well, at least one dog, hopefully two. GA

PHChristy: Cackle, ga

petxpert: Thanks for your interest, Skaket

Cackle: I have a one year old shih tzu who itches. She's been on antibiotics, and now I'm giving her polaramine, she is on Frontline and has no flfleas. I don't want to resort to cortisone and really can't afford to do the allergy testing here, in Australia. The vet has suggested switching her to science diet cat food so she gets the fish and oils in it. Her coat is shiny as but getting thin in parts from scratching, she has no breaks in her skin, but it is pink and warm. Do you have any advice for me to try? :ga

ElaineGewirtz: Over the summer I was at a PugFest and there must have been 100 Pugs all in close proximity of one another with another odd assortment of other breeds and I never heard a grunt or a growl ga

PHMowgli: next up is Cackle!

petxpert: Interesting that your vet would suggest cat food. That or one of the other veterinary diets, perhaps from another reputable company. If it's not a food allergy then you may have to look at the environment.

ElaineGewirtz: Cackle - have you tried switching foods? ga

petxpert: GA

VictorJoris: Try a differant shampoo....also the food. Even thou I'm not a vet...but really you should talk to your vet about this.

Chilys: !

Cackle: I've switched foods a few times and use oatmeal shampoo

Cackle: I''ve even changed flea medication to see if that was causing it

Cackle: all to no aviale

Cackle: ga

petxpert: It could be a specific food allergy.

Chilys: There are many misconceptions about pet food-and most vets don't even understand the ingredient labels. High-quality, organic foods can make a huge difference and topical flea treatments acan also cause reactions

Tzugirl_nr: ?

VictorJoris: Honestly, you should have your vet test for allergies..it could be anything causing it.

VictorJoris: ga

Cackle: alright thank you very much ga

petxpert: You could also have your vet lead you through an elimination diet.

PHChristy: folks... tonight during our guest chat, if you want to make a comment or ask a question, type a ? or ! into the room and wait to be called on, thanks!

ElaineGewirtz: The allergy testing, although expensive, would tell you exactly what's wrong. It's a one time expense that you might consider being offset by the expense of trying different shampoos and foods without knowing ga

greyfeir_nr: !

PHChristy: Willowrose, ga!

willowrose_nr: Mr> Jarvis, When judging a Shih Tzu, what is it that you are really looking for? What qualities would make one stand out over another? When training them for show, what age do you recommend - I mean that you have found, if it applies, they really begin to learn, so to speak?

willowrose_nr: ga

greyfeir_nr: the breed specific food bood says Shihs should have a diet of chicken and pork and soy and sugar beets

VictorJoris: The way I did it....

VictorJoris: When I decided the puppy was show quality, I would take and handle the dog four or five times a day

ElaineGewirtz: I forgot to mention that I show my own dogs and have taught a conformation handling class for many years ga

VictorJoris: fingers in mouth, massage, stacking gentle on the table.

VictorJoris: First it has to look like a shih tzu

VictorJoris: and I would like full dark eye with no white showing

VictorJoris: a dead level top line, with a high tail set

VictorJoris: well laid back shoulders.

VictorJoris: Color was never important to me

VictorJoris: because all colors and all markings should be judge equally.

VictorJoris: ga

PHChristy: DnDShihTzu, you may go ahead now

DnDShihTzu: Victor, what is your opinion of the Shih Tzu we see in the ring today vs the Shih Tzu of 20-30 yrs ago? Also since you are a designer what is your opinion of todays ring fashion?

PHMowgli: que at this time is DnD, Chilys, Anastasia, Jeff, Tzugirl

willowrose_nr: ?

PHChristy: Oh, I am SO glad you asked about ring fashion! I was going to ask that if no one else did <G>

giori_nr: ?

DnDShihTzu: lol ga

VictorJoris: Well first of all I have to admit I like the dogs 20-30 years ago

VictorJoris: they have glamourized and hollywoodized it so much that it is a cosmetic dog

VictorJoris: Basically, the dog is a happy, alert little sturdy dog and it has tremendous amount of stamina.

Jan_nr: ?

VictorJoris: Everyone wanting to grow coat and lost stamina and personality of the dog.

thedoc617: ?

VictorJoris: I would prefer in the ring to see a dog that shows animation and not just go around the ring.

VictorJoris: Fashion....dress better now

PHMowgli: chilys you are next up

VictorJoris: I do an article every year for Show Site Magazine

Chilys: What qualities do you see missing in the not-so-competative toy breeds (specifically Chihuahuas) and how do we go about being taken more seriously by large-breed exhibitors?

DnDShihTzu: I thought you might say that based on what I have seen you reward in the ring..and I agree with you.TY..ga

VictorJoris: Personally, toys are highly competative in the ring right now.

LisaShihTzu_nr: ?

VictorJoris: Right now, there is a Chihuahua that has 25 BIS plus numerous speciality wins...this is a long coat

VictorJoris: ga

CloudsOwner: ?

PHChristy: Jeff is next, I think, as Anastasia was bumped out :(

PHChristy: Jeff, ga

Chilys: Yes, Teddy-I know him-but it seems that there are a few good dogs and the rest are ignored

jeffb: My parents pugs seem to frighten my male ridgeback, he seems confused as to what they are. any way to resolve this issue

PHChristy: a pug question for Elaine!

PHMowgli: que thus far is Jeff, Tzugirl, willowrose, giori, jan, thedoc617, lisa, and cloudsowner

PHChristy: or any of our panelists, as I think this is an issue with large and small dogs in general

petxpert: Some dogs don't speak "dog" very well.

ElaineGewirtz: It's also a question of territory. They might do fine on neutral territory. Try introducing them outdoors ga

petxpert: That might be part of the problem. It's hard to say without observing their interactions.

petxpert: ga

PHChristy: Tzugirl, ga

Tzugirl_nr: Victor, do you have an opinion as to why the Shih Tzu has not been taking BIS in the national shows, like Westminster/Eukanuba? Do you feel there is any particular kennel that is breeding what you would think to be outstanding Shih Tzu?

PHChristy: <---had 115 pound deerhound who would run and hide from puppies

Skaket: LOL

VictorJoris: Shih Tzu have never actually been a tremendous winning in Westminster and Eukanuba....the first shih tzu that took a group in the garden was from Canada

VictorJoris: and the second one was Yum Yum....

petxpert: Christy, I can relate. I run and hide from small children. LOL <wg>

PHChristy: LOL Darlene

VictorJoris: As a judge

VictorJoris: I can't answer the question on kennel....

VictorJoris: It may make me look bad......

PHChristy: LOL

PHChristy: a diplomat <G>

VictorJoris: As far as, judges think other toy dogs are better

VictorJoris: then the Shih Tzu

Tzugirl_nr: Thank you very much, I understand. I

VictorJoris: Personally, I think the shih tzu are on a collition course as the Lhasa

VictorJoris: Personal opinion....

CrestedDogs: ?

VictorJoris: ga

PHChristy: WillowRose ga

willowrose_nr: about the tail, one that lays on the back, or one that is high set, like a tea cup handle? My older lined dogs tend to have the high set teacup, and some do not. My mom has a pup who is just year old. She has been kept in coat, lately the hairs have been fallling out leaving the shorter undercoat, especially near her neck and around the tops of her eyes, where a top knot would be pulled up, though when her hair is up, it usually loose. Is this loss of "puppy coat" natural as some have told me or have she been doing something wrong with her grooming? I understand they do blow coat.

willowrose_nr: but we see so many young winners with full ones.

VictorJoris: They are wrong if they lay flat.....

willowrose_nr: Unfortunately, as you said, it is not all about personality .haha

VictorJoris: She should of puppy coat by now....

ElaineGewirtz: I'm afraid I'm going to have to sign off - I'd be glad to give you my email if anyone has any Pug questions? ga

PHChristy: folks, right now our queue is full.. we will keep going until all our current questions that are waiting to be asked, are answered, and if we have time, we'll open up for more questions.

PHChristy: goodnight Elaine, thank you so much for coming... please give us your email address!

VictorJoris: If you want to preserve the top coat then you have to be

PHMowgli: Thank you Elaine from all of here!

ElaineGewirtz: It's egewirtz@west.net

PHKeeper: Night Elaine and thanks

VictorJoris: careful brushing out the undercoat

VictorJoris: If she has had a season ....she will blow a coat

VictorJoris: ga

PHChristy: if anyone had questions for Elaine, I will forward them to her and will add them to the chat transcript!

willowrose_nr: thanks, she did.

PHMowgli: next up in que is giori

willowrose_nr: i guess thats is why more males are shown in that breed

VictorJoris: Yes!!

VictorJoris: ga

PHChristy: giori, please go ahead!

giori_nr: I'd like to hear the panel's take on the current "fad" in toy breeds as a fashion accessory. And, how can this be discouraged (if indeed it can?)? Do people truly understand the responsibility of caring for a toy dog? How can we help educate them?

petxpert: Boy, did you hit a hot button issue for me!!!!

PHMowgli: que is as follows giori, jan, thedoc617, Lisa, cloudsowner, crested

VictorJoris: I think it's ridiculous myself.....but they will do what they want for publicity

petxpert: Toys are not accessories. All of us here know that but there's gong to be a real problem with little girls who want to copy Paris Hilton, etc. and have a small dog on their arm.

VictorJoris: I certainly don't approve of it....

petxpert: Most people do not understand the responsibility of caring for any dog let alone a Toy. Toys have special issues.

VictorJoris: ga

petxpert: I can only imagine some spoiled kid who convinces her parents to get her this "fad" and then what happens? It doesn't bode well for the dog. We have to do all that we can to educate the public, get the word out that these are *real* dogs with real dog issues. And kids just can't assume all of the responsibility for their care, etc.

petxpert: ga

giori_nr: thank you!

PHChristy: jan, your turn

Jan_nr: mime was a pug question. anyonw want to take it on?

PHChristy: jan, go ahead!

petxpert: Go ahead, Jan.

Jan_nr: my male Pug sheds like crazy! Hi is a fawn and I know they shed more any comments?

VictorJoris: Pugs shed like crazy anyhow....they should be brushed everyday

petxpert: Gosh, the dogs that shed the most seem to be the ones with the shortest coat. LOL I usually walk away from them looking like their biological mother. LOL That said...

petxpert: Be sure to brush daily, as Victor said.

petxpert: ga

VictorJoris: ga

Jan_nr: I do try to. thanks

PHMowgli: next in que is thedoc617

thedoc617: (this is a continuation questino from Jeff's) is there any way to cure the "little dog syndrome" (where my shih-tzu thinks she's in a german shepard's) when she socializes with other dogs (she's an alpha personality, and some big dogs don't like it), she is currently on NILIF (nothing in life is free) and is no longer alpha with me anymore. she has had basic obedience, any suggestions? ga

petxpert: Yes. That kind of attitude can inadvertantly get her killed. I'd suggest finding someone who has a large dog that's good with little dogs and plan some socialization sessions.

VictorJoris: It's hard for me to comment on that with out seeing the dog.....

petxpert: Your dog needs to meet other dogs of all sizes but it must be done under controlled conditions.

thedoc617: she's fine on a leash, but once she gets off leash she's crazy

petxpert: Sometimes little dogs are merely announcing that they're there. But it can be misunderstood.

petxpert: Is she trying to play?

thedoc617: yes, always

petxpert: What is her body language like?

petxpert: Ahhh. Does she have any playmates her own size?

thedoc617: she's always in a play-bow position, and that's fine

petxpert: What sort of activities is she involved in?

petxpert: The larger dog should understand that immediately.

thedoc617: I take her to the dog park every friday (i'm in college, so she lives with my parents)

petxpert: Have you gotten involved in any other activities with her?

petxpert: I'd suggest Canine Musical Freestyle. You can find the World Canine Freestyle Organization at: www.worldcaninefreestyle.org

thedoc617: i would love to do agility, but I'm worried she wouldn't focus on me

petxpert: Freestyle is fun and easy.

thedoc617: she's very distracted, and has focus issues

petxpert: It's a choreographed dance routine with your dog. Set to music. Basically it's trick training. If she has issues then working with some freestylers with gentle training will help.

petxpert: ga

thedoc617: hmm, okay

thedoc617: thanks

thedoc617: ga

PHChristy: Lisa, ga

LisaShihTzu_nr: Victor, can you give any advice to the children just starting out in Jr Showmanship? Ring craft training was great, my 13 yr old loves it but would love to try to go under another handlers wing perhaps? ga

VictorJoris: Pick out the one that really can teach her.....

VictorJoris: extra points and exhibit...and not look like another junior handler....

VictorJoris: one that she respects and willing to teach her...

VictorJoris: Just get her into shows of junior showmanship

VictorJoris: the more she enters the better she will become....

VictorJoris: ga

LisaShihTzu_nr: Thank you so much :) she's won a few blues so far! THANKS ga

PHChristy: CloudsOwner, please go ahead... :)

VictorJoris: Very Nice!!!

CloudsOwner: hi Im new here and not versed in your protocals but i have a question in reguards to pry skin issues

PHMowgli: is that dry skin clouds?

CloudsOwner: my 4 month pup was just recently taken to a groomers and unnoticed until today when I bathed him after he decided to roll in a puddle I bathed him only to discover he seemed to have dime sized red blotches on his belly by his hind hips

CloudsOwner: he didnt have it prior to going to the groomers and im curious is it might be a reaction to the shampoos they used on him

PHChristy: I think that is most likely something you'd want to have your vet look at, Clouds... but it certainly could be from the shampoo.

PHChristy: Darlene, did you want to add anything to that?

CloudsOwner: he doesnt scratch lick or rub at it and he seemingly has no apparant irritation other than it looks like he has exima

petxpert: I agree. Or it could be razor burn from shaving him in that area.

CloudsOwner: its really kinda ugly looking

PHChristy: Everyone, that's all we have time for tonight. Darlene, Victor, and Elaine in absentia, on behalf of all of us at DogHobbyist.com, thank you so much for being our guests tonight!

petxpert: Have your veterinarian look at it.

PHChristy: Thank you to all who joined us tonight as well. Just to let you know, Darlene will be our guest again this week, on Saturday night at 9 PM Eastern Time right here in the Dog Den, discussing "Unbelievably Good Deals and Great Adventures That You Absolutely Can't Get Unless You're a Dog." For information on all our Chat Week events, please visit our schedule at http://www.doghobbyist.com/DogChat7.html where you will also find links to the transcripts for all our chats!

petxpert: Thank you so much for inviting me. It has been an absolute pleasure!

CloudsOwner: yeah im going to do that but thought ide check in with you all prior

CloudsOwner: thnx for your assistance

PHChristy: thank you Clouds, good luck with your dog!

VictorJoris: Thank you so much for having me!!

DnDShihTzu: I enjoyed this so much thank you to all and it was a pleasure Victor

PHMowgli: Thank you Darlene and Victor!!!

petxpert: See you Saturday at 9. :)

PHChristy: and of course, join us every Thursday at 10 PM Eastern for small dog chat!

PHKeeper: Thank you Victor, Darlene and Elaine for an interesting and informative chat And thanks for all that attended

PHChristy: goodnight everyone! and see you Saturday at Darlene's chat!